Technical Input shaft bearing renewal

[kp60bug]

HELP NEEDED; Input shaft bearing renewal, torque settings.

hi everyone this is a great forum i'm a new member I got fiat grande punto 1.2 2006 model, just got around changing my input shaft bearing and now I need to put it back together. I was wondering what torque to tighten the bell housing, gear selector, differential housing and rear cover. would really appreciate any help.


Also any advise on whether I should use a instant gasket or liquid gasket would be helpful


MANY THANKS

 

[flisko]

Re: HELP NEEDED; Input shaft bearing renewal, torque settings.

hi everyone this is a great forum i'm a new member I got fiat grande punto 1.2 2006 model, just got around changing my input shaft bearing and now I need to put it back together. I was wondering what torque to tighten the bell housing, gear selector, differential housing and rear cover. would really appreciate any help.


Also any advise on whether I should use a instant gasket or liquid gasket would be helpful


MANY THANKS

 

[judderbar]

Re: HELP NEEDED; Input shaft bearing renewal, torque settings.

Also any advise on whether I should use a instant gasket or liquid gasket would be helpful
MANY THANKS

Do not use a liquid sealant of the type used for rocker covers

You need to use a sealant that can go hard without needing to breathe vapours. They go by the name anaerobic sealant

https://www.permatex.com/products/g...e-sealants/permatex-anaerobic-flange-sealant/

The idea of an instant gasket sounds like bad news to me because when you put it back together you need to consider that you need to do quite a bit of fiddling to get the reverse linkage back in the ball socket unless you totally know what you are doing or are just lucky. So whatever sealant you place on the flanges is going to be just about everywhere by the time you are ready to start tightening the bolts and it will have to be still liquid to enable you put more sealant here and there where it has been disturbed.

 

[flisko]

Re: HELP NEEDED; Input shaft bearing renewal, torque settings.

this

 

[kp60bug]

Re: HELP NEEDED; Input shaft bearing renewal, torque settings.

Anyone know how to refit the gear selector?

I've got the linkages attached but the gear knob isn't moving left and right therefore it's stopping Me from going into 1st 2nd 5th and reverse but I can move it into 3rd and 4th gear

 

[digger58]

pics of inside of gearbox? also who can change clutch in 2 hours? maybe if some fiat guys are doing it for a bet and like 3 people are working on the car, one is removing driveshafts while other is draining oil and removing bolts, mounts, and other one is removing battery and stuff

shows almost 4 hours to change clutch in autodata

I'd say quite possible with lift and airgun! I did mine in about 3 with just a jack and hand tools.

 

[DaveMcT]

The bearings are available as sealed for life types with integral soft seals. Leave one seal in place and pull the seal from the side which will face into the gearbox. Also use the correct seal as back-up. Belt & braces r us.

I strongly suspect parking Puntos on UK roads (with LH camber) leave the gear oil low at the clutch end so its dry when the engine starts. Some side streets with a steep camber or low gutter would be worst of all. Cars parked on the opposite camber or on level drives would be less at risk.

Thread resurrection (sorry). But my comment here is WRONG.

The bearings are grease sealed they DO NOT use the gearbox oil in any way.

They should be fit and forget but I usually add additional grease as every sealed bearing I've done (usually motorbike wheels) has failed due to lack of grease.

Fill one side only with grease. DO NOT PACK THE BEARING as this will cause the grease to churn, overheat and blow the integral seals. Use high temperature grease.

Sorry for the resurrection but this is important.

 

[judderbar]

Thread resurrection (sorry). But my comment here is WRONG.

The bearings are grease sealed they DO NOT use the gearbox oil in any way.

They should be fit and forget but I usually add additional grease as every sealed bearing I've done (usually motorbike wheels) has failed due to lack of grease.

Fill one side only with grease. DO NOT PACK THE BEARING as this will cause the grease to churn, overheat and blow the integral seals. Use high temperature grease.

Sorry for the resurrection but this is important.

It is not possible to prevent the gearbox oil from entering a sealed bearing. The gearbox engine heats up and forces air out of the bearing and then when it cools down whatever is on the outside is going to be sucked back into the bearing - which includes outside air with moisture. Used sealed bearings always have a small amount of leakage on the outside. Over time the grease will be gone and it will just be oil that will be slowly going in and out of the bearing. Seems best to remove the inner seal.

 

[dtwkwok]

Doing mine now. It is exactly the problem. The input shaft bearing is shot. Ball bearings are crushed in the gearbox and transmission oil is like milk shake. Anyway, I spent an hour to bash the remaining inner race of bearing out of the shaft with no avail. Bearing puller does not help either. Went down the road and asked for help with a mechanics. He said I need to go to a trany specialist who has the right tool to pull it out and press the new one in. Anyway it seems too hard without any means of transport atm. I thought it might be an idea to heat up the bearing and bash it again. Pesto, I heat it up for about 2 min. and bang it again with a large screwdriver. Now it submitted to my brut force. Hope it helps other to get the bearing out of the shaft.
David

 

[dtwkwok]

I run into trouble when putting the shift cable back. There are 2 cables, one with black bush and the other one is green. I now cannot shift to 1 and 2. But 3 and not 4 and reverse. From further making observation of how it works. It seems that the black cable is moving the gear fork sliding forward and backward so it does selection of 1 or 2, 3 or 4 and 5 and reverse when the fork shaft is selected. The other cable with the green bush, which on the top of gearbox, control the selection of different fork shaft, 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and reverse. the lever has a spring that allow the lever to move anti-clockwise under tension and return to its original position.
The current situation is that the lever is not under tension, it is in the 3 and 4 fork shaft. In order to go to 1 and 2 fork shaft, it seems the level should go clockwise and somehow select the 1 and 2 fork shaft. I deduct the mechanism by pushing with hand the fork shaft away from the gearbox to get to 1 and 2 shaft and see that the lever is pushed clockwise. I suspect I may not connect the lever inside the gearbox properly in order to have the lever to select the 1 and 2 fork shaft. Anyone can give me some pointers. The last resort may have to re-open the gearbox again. Anyone can help me please.

 

[judderbar]

I run into trouble when putting the shift cable back. There are 2 cables, one with black bush and the other one is green. I now cannot shift to 1 and 2. But 3 and not 4 and reverse. From further making observation of how it works. It seems that the black cable is moving the gear fork sliding forward and backward so it does selection of 1 or 2, 3 or 4 and 5 and reverse when the fork shaft is selected. The other cable with the green bush, which on the top of gearbox, control the selection of different fork shaft, 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and reverse. the lever has a spring that allow the lever to move anti-clockwise under tension and return to its original position.
The current situation is that the lever is not under tension, it is in the 3 and 4 fork shaft. In order to go to 1 and 2 fork shaft, it seems the level should go clockwise and somehow select the 1 and 2 fork shaft. I deduct the mechanism by pushing with hand the fork shaft away from the gearbox to get to 1 and 2 shaft and see that the lever is pushed clockwise. I suspect I may not connect the lever inside the gearbox properly in order to have the lever to select the 1 and 2 fork shaft. Anyone can give me some pointers. The last resort may have to re-open the gearbox again. Anyone can help me please.

Did you reconnect the reverse fork ball joint as you joined the bell housing to the gearbox? The beginning of this thread gives all of the details for that. It only takes 5 minutes to find out by removing the top cover.


With the top cover off you can fully or partially separate the gearbox from the bellhousing without removing the bellhousing from the engine.

Edit: I see now you have a late model fiat 500, you got the instructions from Utube and presumably did not follow the instructions in this thread.

 

[dtwkwok]

Thanks for your reply.

Mine is 2013 500 1.2 pop so it is the same 8v engine.

I did reconnect the reverse fork ball which is then secured by 2 bolts to the belt housing. It is referred to in the 4th picture of Mr Wild.

My issue is the lever on the top which control the selection of the 3 shaft fork. Pulling the lever anti clock wise under the spring tension, would select the 5th and reverse shaft. See picture at position 1. When it is back to un stretched position, see picture at position 2, it would select the 3rd and 4th gear shaft. When the lever push clock wise, at position 3, it should select the 1st and 2nd gear shaft. At the moment, push the lever cannot select the 1st and 2nd gear shaft. It seems something is missing and lever is not selecting 1st and 2nd gear shaft.

 

[dtwkwok]

sorry please see the picture.

My mistake may be that I unscrewed the nut on the lever in order separate the cable from the gearbox. The proper way should be separate the cable and lever at the bush ball joint so the inside mechanism is not disturbed unnecessarily. Once I took the nut out, I notice the bolt can slide in and out of the position although not separate completely.

 

[judderbar]

sorry please see the picture.

My mistake may be that I unscrewed the nut on the lever in order separate the cable from the gearbox. The proper way should be separate the cable and lever at the bush ball joint so the inside mechanism is not disturbed unnecessarily. Once I took the nut out, I notice the bolt can slide in and out of the position although not separate completely.

Your lever is two far clockwise.

If you undo the nut you might be able to reposition the lever correctly by allowing the bolt to go lower in the hole. Nothing is going to get lost deep in the gearbox if you try that.

You can see the correct position in my pictures.

The pictures have names if you click on them. Fifth is almost parallel with up and down on the picture

The lever should always strongly spring to neutral/3rd 4th and never be loose. If the lever is disconnected you would have 3rd and 4th and neutral.

It is easy to remove the cover.

 

[dtwkwok]

Your lever is two far clockwise.

If you undo the nut you might be able to reposition the lever correctly by allowing the bolt to go lower in the hole. Nothing is going to get lost deep in the gearbox if you try that.

You can see the correct position in my pictures.

The pictures have names if you click on them. Fifth is almost parallel with up and down on the picture

The lever should always strongly spring to neutral/3rd 4th and never be loose. If the lever is disconnected you would have 3rd and 4th and neutral.

It is easy to remove the cover.

You are spot on Mr judderbar. I took it open the cover again and realised that the level underneath is out of position therefore not being able to push to engage the 1st and 2nd shift fork. It is now all good. I am very happy to have accomplished such a difficult job and have learned a great deal too.

 

[dtwkwok]

These pictures are for correct lever position and also out of position

 

[dtwkwok]

After fixing the input shaft bearing for 1 month or so. I have just seeing oil drops on the floor and it seems to be coming from the gearbox. I did put very small amount of sealant at the bottom seams when fixing the gearbox to the bell housing. Although I read it from Mr Wild to do so, I did not see any sealant used when I open the gearbox up. So I reckon that oil is probably thicker than coolant and the tight fit and screw would prevent transmission oil leaking out. It now turns out that I am wrong. Is there any quick fix instead of taking the whole clutch and gearb

ox down?

I also notice that there is an opening at the top of the gearbox fixing to the bell housing. See the attached photo. I am sure trans oil can be escaping from the opening as well. Why the whole gearbox is sealed?

 

[judderbar]

After fixing the input shaft bearing for 1 month or so. I have just seeing oil drops on the floor and it seems to be coming from the gearbox. I did put very small amount of sealant at the bottom seams when fixing the gearbox to the bell housing. Although I read it from Mr Wild to do so, I did not see any sealant used when I open the gearbox up. So I reckon that oil is probably thicker than coolant and the tight fit and screw would prevent transmission oil leaking out. It now turns out that I am wrong. Is there any quick fix instead of taking the whole clutch and gearb

ox down?

I also notice that there is an opening at the top of the gearbox fixing to the bell housing. See the attached photo. I am sure trans oil can be escaping from the opening as well. Why the whole gearbox is sealed?

You can separate the gearbox from the bellhousing while it is inside the engine compartment and only take the lighter and smaller gearbox to your bench to clean it up and you then have plenty of room to clean up the bellhousing flanges.


It is hard to see the original sealant on the flanges of the touching surfaces. It just appears as a slight colour on the shining metal.


In your photo I think you will find that looks like a hole but actually there is no hole there.

 

[multipete]

You can take just the main box bit off(from the bell housing,thus leaving drive shafts in)and yes it does need sealing all the way round. The hardest part is to refit the reverse mechanism two 13mm head size bolts.you need to do this before you completely close the gap to the bell housing and fit the ball selector part in to the hole to make reverse gear work before closing gap and tightening casing bolts. If you have loads of time and patience that’s fine,but you may be better taking the box out totally to strip and rebuild.Much easier,when box out.

 

[dtwkwok]

Thanks for everyone 's suggestions. I have re tightened the six bolts around the gearbox and the bellhousing. It seems to work, only minute amount near the seems but it does not even form a drop of oil. So I shall continue to monitor and probably check my oil level for the time being and do the fix when I change trans oil next time.