Technical Input shaft bearing renewal

[flisko]

Yes she's all good for now , I I what you mean by the weather I started the job this morning it started raining I just compromised and worked through it , once started I wasn't stopping lol

never give up

 

[Mr Clock Radio]

Hi all this message is to update you on my input shaft bearing change. so today i drained the oil first then unbolted the gear selector and unclipped the cables so i could get that out of the way. then i put a jack under the bellhousing near 1 of the bolts so the weight was not actually on the cast shell of the housing then i undone the bolt for the engine mount as the engine started to drop i lifted the jack to take the weight and unbolted the engine mountain off the body and off the gearbox. all was left was the gear box. i undone all the bolts around the gearbox and slid it off. i removed the 2 bolts for the folk as mentioned and 1 more thing. to remove the bearing i put a screwdriver from the top at the gear selector and tapped it out from there the old bearing was split and could not use a puller on it i followed you photos and i am thankfull for your information Mr Wild . And a big thanks too Shaun for his help. i found this job really easy without needing to remove the bellhousing drive shafts and so on.i will be putting it back together tommorow.
ile update when i put it back together if there are any issues to be carefull off..

Can you also replace the clutch plate this way?

 

[digger58]

That's a very simplified explanation of what you have to do, no mention of disconnecting drives, starter etc, Bell housing needs to come off to do clutch, when gearbox is off you can check bearing and seal.

 

[Mr Clock Radio]

Imapct 1279 is saying that he removed the gearbox from the bellhousing and replaced a input shaft bearing with the gearbox insitu.

Or is he?>

 

[judderbar]

Imapct 1279 is saying that he removed the gearbox from the bellhousing and replaced a input shaft bearing with the gearbox insitu.

Or is he?>

Yes and fiat tech approved! :idea:

Yes its possible to swap input shaft bearing with bellhousing still in the car but as White says, if there are differential bearing issues the thats another matter.

When I swapped my gearbox and clutch the last time, I'd already changed the bearing and seal before putting the entire thing back together again Little did I know but the seal was for another box and was slightly bigger. Long story short, I ended up speaking to a Fiat Tech who said just unbolt the box off the bellhousing and swap the seal, re-fit etc. It worked fine, saved a ton of work and fingers crossed its still going strong.

Bit of a tip for you, use two self tappers screwed into the holes around the seal to jack it out. Works a treat

Good luck mate but I'd def reconsider working in the rain

Where are you in the country please mate?

If your near to sunny Hull then I can help you

Only slightly tricky thing in taking the box off this way is the reverse selector (which I believe you can see in Mr Wilds brilliant thread) It sort of rests on a ball type of thing and you can only pop it back on again just as the box is about to meet up with the bell housing as your putting it back together again.

You'll know I'm sure but your going to need a bit of a shopping list for this job

Bearing (cant remember the number but its on here, cheap at a bearing factors).
Seal, dont get wrong one like i did (Your friendly Fiat Stealership).
Sealant (for bell housing/box joint) Check with Stealership but I used an anerobic type (goes off in absence of air)
Gearbox oil (cheaper at a factors but Stealer sells genuine stuff) Think you need just less than 2 ltr's.

Once box is off your going to need a puller of sorts to drag bearing off shaft, not expensive, I used real cheap three legged type.

To re fit the new bearing, I used a cold spray from screwfix to chill the input shaft and a warm air gun to heat the new bearing. It just slipped straight on.

I'm going to PM my mobile mate on the off chance you need help over the phone

Good luck dude.

 

[Mr Clock Radio]

Would a worn input shaft bearing cause reverse gearto 'pop out' under load?

 

[judderbar]

Still have no idea why my first gear is becoming noisier. Not noticing it in any other gear. A few months after that noise began a pretty bad rattling noise has suddenly started from the bellhousing which you can only hear with the bonnet open. It stops when you press the clutch. The clutch is original and now at 225,000km. I Bought the clutch kit and I suppose I will have to take the box out and see if that first gear noise can be traced. Car sounds totally fine and just the same at 120km per hour on the motorway. The clutch at least has to be fixed before winter arrives here in Finland.

 

[flisko]

i run around naked during fi winter

 

[judderbar]

Still have no idea why my first gear is becoming noisier. Not noticing it in any other gear. A few months after that noise began a pretty bad rattling noise has suddenly started from the bellhousing which you can only hear with the bonnet open. It stops when you press the clutch. The clutch is original and now at 225,000km. I Bought the clutch kit and I suppose I will have to take the box out and see if that first gear noise can be traced. Car sounds totally fine and just the same at 120km per hour on the motorway. The clutch at least has to be fixed before winter arrives here in Finland.

Took it apart. Input bearing is shot. Clutch was still good for a few more thousand.

 

[judderbar]

Took it apart. Input bearing is shot. Clutch was still good for a few more thousand.

Car running well again. Rattling in neutral and whirring in first caused by the input bearing. I left the old seal in the box as I was not totally confidant it would ever work again and anyway it was completely leak free.

The inside of the box was unbelievably dirty. The differential end was worse. Supposedly the oil was changed about 50,000 km ago. I guess I was looking at the original oil after 225,000km? I was not prepared for the amount of oil that came out of the box even after the oil plug was removed and I was turning it around. I never did any cleaning inside the box before I put it back together again but I flushed out the box with flushing oil 5 times leaving the bottom layer in the pan each time and then pouring it into a jug to settle for a while. First flush I went thru all of the gears and revved it a bit in 5th. All the other times I had it idling in 5th for a while. Last two times I drained it with the engine running. Still some metal coming out but I suppose it will soon be ground up.

I took the drive shafts out of the box before lowering the box, and then when replacing them I started thinking I would never get them in. The long side popped in when I turned the steering wheel but for the short side I took the tie rod ball joint off and it went in easily.

I started this job midday Sunday. Working flat out and having no problems taking things apart with hand tools, I was spinning the damaged input bearing with my hand by 11pm. Started monday about 10am and cycled to get oil, new bearing and 15cm 3 legged puller. I made a cock up by leaving my clutch centring tool (a small battery) in the clutch and messed around for two hours before giving up and removing the battery , but otherwise I had no problems but it still took me to 11pm to get the box bolted on. Flat out again Tuesday and by 10pm I just had to get some more oil (decided not to put the old stuff in). Went for a test drive by 12am wednesday.

So I am wondering how the f*** can somebody change a clutch in two hours??

I did take off the input manifold to get at one bolt and I am supposing it would have been a terrible job to put the box back on with the manifold in place. My car is a 16V. I reused the gasket.
It took me about two? hours to get the sodding bracket for the clutch cables back on. Even with my endoscope I could not easily see why the last bolt would not go in. In the end I put the lower bolts in first and then got the top one in with some wiggling.
I took the access cover off to remove the input shaft but after looking at that end I decided it was easier to get a 15cm puller. (14 Euro) The bearing was very tight but it came off easily with the puller. I was surprised that people here had hammered it off while it was on the box.
Did some undersealing while I was at it. Even so this was a big job and at times it was getting a bit too much to be so far in and still have so much to do.

 

[flisko]

pics of inside of gearbox? also who can change clutch in 2 hours? maybe if some fiat guys are doing it for a bet and like 3 people are working on the car, one is removing driveshafts while other is draining oil and removing bolts, mounts, and other one is removing battery and stuff

shows almost 4 hours to change clutch in autodata

 

[judderbar]

pics of inside of gearbox? also who can change clutch in 2 hours? maybe if some fiat guys are doing it for a bet and like 3 people are working on the car, one is removing driveshafts while other is draining oil and removing bolts, mounts, and other one is removing battery and stuff

shows almost 4 hours to change clutch in autodata

Sorry no pictures. There are some good pictures of the parts you see when you do the input shaft bearing at the beginning of this thread.

 

[flisko]

Sorry no pictures. There are some good pictures of the parts you see when you do the input shaft bearing at the beginning of this thread.

pic or it didnt happen

 

[judderbar]

pic or it didnt happen

Video of my noisy input bearing

http://vid680.photobucket.com/albums/vv161/Radiant_2009/P8140061_zpsviyfi6pi.mp4

Clutch still had a bit of life.

 

[SB1500]

@MrWild how did you know what the specification of the bearing and seal was? (in order to purchase the replacement)

Trying to source one for my 1.2 8v 5spd 2005 Panda (type 169)

 

[SB1500]

Could it be any of these?

 

[judderbar]

@MrWild how did you know what the specification of the bearing and seal was? (in order to purchase the replacement)

Trying to source one for my 1.2 8v 5spd 2005 Panda (type 169)

The panda 4 wheel drive is using the same gear box casting as the punto so it seems likely you will be needing the same bearings and seals that are mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

 

[Thefox]

Sorry no pictures. There are some good pictures of the parts you see when you do the input shaft bearing at the beginning of this thread.

I've seen lads at the dealer I worked at do a 188 punto clutch in an hour, seen it many times. When your doing it day after day you get pretty quick.

 

[flisko]

I've seen lads at the dealer I worked at do a 188 punto clutch in an hour, seen it many times. When your doing it day after day you get pretty quick.

1 hour clutch

challenge accepted

 

[judderbar]

I've seen lads at the dealer I worked at do a 188 punto clutch in an hour, seen it many times. When your doing it day after day you get pretty quick.

I suppose with one working on top and one on each wheel and one underneath and no problems encountered it begins to seem possible.

All I know is I was going at it like it was the olympics for 11 hours before I was spinning the input bearing in my hand.