General Induction, mapping, and exhausts

[Gary]

Out of the three of us who have the gsr on the Panda 100hp,

I have already put mesh into the foglight area

 

[HP]

you keep ranting on just now you said The 100hp GSR filter sits right behind the radiator, 6" away from the catalys"
you cant just keep posting stuff that isnt true, you can see from the photo that the filter is not behind the rad.

now your saying that the area is in traps hot air, how can it on a moving car, maybe when your sat in traffic, but you dont need induction kit to work in traffic.

Dave, you're missing the point completely. There is no cold air ducting to the filter on the kit in the photos, that isn't something that can be denied. All I said is it will benefit from a cold air feed, I don't understand the tone of your response.

Gary, that is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about.

 

[dave]

Dave, you're missing the point completely. There is no cold air ducting to the filter on the kit in the photos, that isn't something that can be denied. All I said is it will benefit from a cold air feed, I don't understand the tone of your response.

no you implied that the filter was sitting behind the rad so getting hot from it, then i posted a pic showing that it wasnt, then you dont say sorry you was mistaken about where it sits

 

[HP]

The head of the filter sits right behind radiator, the air blows into the space behind it, the filter sucks in this air, what am I missing? Apologies, but I really don't understand.

Can you explain how cold air would get to the filter without a mod like Gary has done? There is an undertray beneath it, a radiator next to it, an exhaust a few inches away from it, a bumper shrouding the forward facing side of it.

You're suggesting it would not benefit from a cold air feed?

 

[sammiboo]

The hot air is blown in through the grille and then the radiator which fills the area behind it. The exhaust and catalyst are just a few inches away and the area will not be cold.

You guys love to make a vicious reply when someone suggests an improvement. You have already stated that the induction kit gives good gains which I have consistently agreed with, what are your issues?

Used to be a friendly forum, this.

I dont understand your comment? has this forum got unfriendly within a month

You'll have to excuse me as i havent been on for the past month due to moving house etc.


I think the problem is that we get new people that come on here with different opinions and cant always take views of others, i dont see anything wrong with what anyone has said, just a constructive discussion.

My other half is looking at gaining with his multijet so will read these threads with interest.

 

[dave]

imo the gains from just the induction kit as is are at there limit, and adding a cold air feed may give more gain but be so slight you probably wont be able to measure it.
if we can get gary and stu at another independent rr meet we will see what difference there is.

lots of other tuning places just put up a bhp increase with no graph at all and just go by what the customer says they feel, don't se why these customers here are being scrutinised so much they are forum staff and their view shouldn't be dismissed

 

[HP]

I dont understand your comment? has this forum got unfriendly within a month .

We can discuss away from this thread if needs be, but there appears to be an unneccesarily aggressive attitude toward genuine questions posed on certain subjects.

Dave, will be interesting to see a back to back comparison of with and without the cold air feed. In my experience every car fitted with one benefits to quite a degree.

 

[dave]

there appears to be an unneccesarily aggressive attitude toward genuine questions posed on certain subjects.

its all in your mind or the way you are reading it, members here are quite good at reporting stuff they see as out of order, and we have had no reports of this,

 

[sammiboo]

We can discuss away from this thread if needs be, but there appears to be an unneccesarily aggressive attitude toward genuine questions posed on certain subjects.

if you feel that any post is aggressive or unjust then use the report button, all reports are taken seriously no matter who they are against. We do try to make people feel welcome on this forum, but sometimes things dont come across as they are meant to, reading what someone is saying is different to hearing what someone is saying and the way it is said/meant

 

[dave]

In my experience every car fitted with one benefits to quite a degree.

got any proof RR print outs? scan them in and post them up then.

 

[hmallett]

The head of the filter sits right behind radiator, the air blows into the space behind it, the filter sucks in this air, what am I missing? Apologies, but I really don't understand.

Can you explain how cold air would get to the filter without a mod like Gary has done? There is an undertray beneath it, a radiator next to it, an exhaust a few inches away from it, a bumper shrouding the forward facing side of it.

You're suggesting it would not benefit from a cold air feed?

Based on what I've learned from years on the Coupe forum (where people take this sort of thing VERY seriously), you'll probably find that being in the vicinity of those heated elements will make very little difference to the charge temperatures.

If my maths is right () the 1.4 litre engine at 6000 rpm will be flowing 4200 litres per minute, or 70 litres per second. Combine this with air forced through the engine bay at speed and the effects are negligible.

Though it's not comparing like with like, people tried different intake positions on the Coupe (which is turbocharged, so intake temps make a big difference), and found that once road speed was above 10-15 mph the intake temps were no different from one place to another.

H

 

[HP]

H, thanks for the comparison - interesting reading. I'm just concerned that the filter is only fed from air which has been through the radiator on the Panda, it's really quite well panelled in down there.

got any proof RR print outs? scan them in and post them up then.

Here's one:

 

[Oldschool]

I appreciate constructive criticism. And I try not to dismiss your points.

The problem with the 100hp is to start with space and a proper cold air feed is not as easy as some people think. The reason why hot air is less effective lies in the fact that it has got less density. Colder air would give a higher VE.

An cold air feed cna be much more tricky to deal with. Much bigger names than GSR suffered from similar problems. The Ford GT suffered from cooling problems, which did not make sense to the designers, where the air ducts were in the frontal area of the car. The reason wasn't the getting of air in. It was getting the air out. Unwanted turbulences created at higher speeds considerable problems. Some tiny lips at the exit in the bonnet solved the problem, but took 2 years to discover.

The Noble M400 suffered from similar problems.

In theory the cold air feed is a good idea. But in practical terms it has been in most cases better to draw still air despite the fact it might be slightly warmer.