Technical How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

[chlblnz]

The Panda failed the emissions again

It was actually worse this time. 0.7% CO at fast idle.

We're thinking it has to be an air leak somewhere after the combustion which is causing the ECU to think it's leaner than it is. And adding more fuel to compensate. The lambda reading was 1.6!!!

It's starting to become a chore now as opposed to a hobby so I've put the car up for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested. Thought I'd give someone on here first dibs. If there's no interest, then I'll put it on the bay.

Can't afford to spend anymore on this project unfortunately.

 

[lewey]

Greater than 1.0 means a lean mixture. There isn't enough fuel (with the probable air leak).

If you want to save this project, read this thread and find a friendly garage:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/310024-cat-not-cat.html

A few have done this now and it would mean an emissions pass for your car with the figures you have provided.

 

[chlblnz]

I agree the emissions are very lean. Just a theory but I think the lambda is telling the engine to add extra fuel due to an air leak. It could be adding the maximum amount of fuel allowable which would cause the high CO. Then the added air due to the post combustion leak is adding oxygen to the exhaust gases causing the high lambda.

An interesting read re. the loophole in the MOT. I think if the airleak is fixed, then it should pass OK. But would be useful as a last ditch to get a ticket. Would be more valuable a car for it.

 

[lewey]

Think you are right about the post-combustion leak. Cracked exhaust manifold, poor seal against cylinder head or bad joint before the cat; that's about all it can be.

 

[chlblnz]

I've had a chat with the MOT centre, and they're up for it. He's done it before apparently.

It looks to me that no MOT centre could turn you away as it's a pretty definitive loophole.

Thanks for the tip

 

[Palio]

I've had a chat with the MOT centre, and they're up for it. He's done it before apparently.

It looks to me that no MOT centre could turn you away as it's a pretty definitive loophole.

Thanks for the tip

Glad it's working with all the mot testers - if that's what the rules say, there's nothing they can do but carry out a non cat test or risk a complaint to VOSA.

Hugely disappointing that your mot tester knew & didn't tell you though - what's that about??!! Apart from it not being worth the effort, a complaint for failure to carry out the tests (plural) correctly would be on the cards!

 

[andyholli]

Old post, but a goody.
In the wiring description at the start there's reference to adding the fuel pump cut off switch if your car didn't originally have one.
I'd say definitely do it for safety's sake and because it's very easy to do;-

The earth return from the pump (black or black and purple) goes to the switch which mounts to the chassis cross member under the passenger seat. That earth comes out of the switch and goes to the chassis somewhere to complete the circuit.

Easy job.

 

[JamieK]

In order to do this conversion do you HAVE to have the RED key from the donor punto? andyholli Dragon Man. And am I right in thinking a punto 75 sx will be an 8 valve?

 

[Dragon Man]

nahh any key will do so long as it has a chip in it. you just have to tape it to the RFID ring.

and yeah the punto 75 engine is an 8v. looks almost identical to the 999cc engine. (besides the intake manifold and throttle body looking different)

 

[Palio]

In order to do this conversion do you HAVE to have the RED key from the donor punto? andyholli Dragon Man. And am I right in thinking a punto 75 sx will be an 8 valve?

nahh any key will do so long as it has a chip in it. you just have to tape it to the RFID ring.

and yeah the punto 75 engine is an 8v. looks almost identical to the 999cc engine. (besides the intake manifold and throttle body looking different)

BUT Panto's donor engine ran like a bag of nails with the blue key (we would have walked away). As soon as I used the master key it ran perfectly, sounded great & put out the management lights! The blue key then worked perfectly - it's not called the "master" key for nothing & personally I'd want it with any donor engine. :idea:

 

[Dragon Man]

but wait... thats not how it works.. ???

hmm strange that. as far as i know the only thing the "master" key was used for was coding future keys as the technology back then was not good enough to clone blue keys.

now it is so you can clone all you want.

the same technology is used to "tag" a pet. the little microchip thingy in the key looks identical to the one that they.. inject... into a pet.

yes.. you could actually make it so your pet cat could lift the immobiliser from off your car... no its the one thing i have not done.

 

[Palio]

but wait... thats not how it works.. ???

hmm strange that. as far as i know the only thing the "master" key was used for was coding future keys as the technology back then was not good enough to clone blue keys.

now it is so you can clone all you want.

the same technology is used to "tag" a pet. the little microchip thingy in the key looks identical to the one that they.. inject... into a pet.

yes.. you could actually make it so your pet cat could lift the immobiliser from off your car... no its the one thing i have not done.

I don't know how it works, but it sorted the ECU out straight away - ask Vern - he nearly fell over at the difference, sounded like a different car!

 

[andyholli]

That is strange - I didn't think the key chips did anything other than switch the immobiliser on and off. So it would either run or not run if there was an issue.
Running better or worse is hard to explain, as John says.

Easier to understand a cat.

 

[onemanmade]

My understanding of the red keys is that if you change the battery then the next time you start it you should use the red key or the immobiliser will be activated.

The only explanation I can think of for this situation is perhaps that "limp home" mode was activated. This is a mode where the ECU imagines a worst case scenario and makes the car run roughly to compensate for potential rough conditions (extremely cold temperature settings etc) and when the red key was used perhaps the ECU was reset to normal settings.

Just a theory. My mk2a punto had a limp home mode that the ECU would go into if sensors were disturbed etc

 

[Palio]

I would imagine that the master key performed an ECU reset procedure, probably needed as the car had been without a battery for a while. I really don't pretend to understand it - that's what happened, and why I'd want the master key with a donor.

 

[onemanmade]

I would imagine that the master key performed an ECU reset procedure, probably needed as the car had been without a battery for a while. I really don't pretend to understand it - that's what happened, and why I'd want the master key with a donor.

I quite agree!

 

[Dragon Man]

Fallout only has a blue key.. that has been without a battery for.. damn half a year.. it was all wired up with only half the sensors connected with constant unplugging and plugging back in.. it never fails though.

 

[onemanmade]

Fallout only has a blue key.. that has been without a battery for.. damn half a year.. it was all wired up with only half the sensors connected with constant unplugging and plugging back in.. it never fails though.

Presumably it uses the ECU with the immobiliser? Odd that it never gives problem's then surely?

 

[JamieK]

Presumably it uses the ECU with the immobiliser? Odd that it never gives problem's then surely?

As long as DragonMan keeps his microchiped cat in the car the immobiliser should be fine

 

[onemanmade]

As long as DragonMan keeps his microchiped cat in the car the immobiliser should be fine

0 running problems, but regular changing of litter trays and scratched upholstery? Is this really a sensible mod?