Technical High oil pressure

[portland_bill]

I may be wrong in thinking about possibility of on demand oil pump

I think an engine really needs constant oil pressure. On demand would create too much risk and reliance on sensors to turn it on before damage.

wrong oil filter fitted is known to cause this issue ????

ahh see its already been checked

A good thought on canister filters, if one is fitted without an internal by-pass valve. This engine uses a paper element filter, so by-pass valve should be in the housing.

Twinair valve actuator oil filter

not sure if its block it would cause High pressure but easy to check plus give a Good idea of the state of the engine

post photo would be good

System pressure is measured at the oil pressure switch, on the oil pump. A blockage further up the line should cause the relief valve to unseat and relieve the pressure, so we can be sure any excess pressure needs the valve at the pump looking at.

 

[portland_bill]

Information is scarce, but we've not been told of any running problems, or nasty noises, so oil must be circulating. Blockages would cause valve operation issues and nasty noises quite quickly.

 

[MrMagoo]

The only time I've had high oil pressure is when I mixed up two different oil pumps on a Lancia engine - the result was a 2 x split oil filters. I made sure the replacement oil filter had a bypass valve. Is the oil pressure lower with the engine at temperature?

 

[koalar]

The only time I've had high oil pressure is when I mixed up two different oil pumps on a Lancia engine - the result was a 2 x split oil filters. I made sure the replacement oil filter had a bypass valve. Is the oil pressure lower with the engine at temperature?

exactly.

only one I have seen. Had part of a bearing jamming the relieve valve. This blow oil past the filter seals. But not a Fiat.


I can't see another twinair with excessive oil pressure ever. On any Model Fiat. Although there are a fair few with the yellow ⚠ But There has to be a first

normally cars are around 25psi and rising with revs to a max of around 65. Turbos are normally slightly lower. although I can't find the specs for the twinair.

I would be surprised if the turbo bearing would survive at 4x normal at idle and rising rapidly ???

 

[jackwhoo]

I think an engine really needs constant oil pressure. On demand would create too much risk and reliance on sensors to turn it on before damage.

A good thought on canister filters, if one is fitted without an internal by-pass valve. This engine uses a paper element filter, so by-pass valve should be in the housing.



System pressure is measured at the oil pressure switch, on the oil pump. A blockage further up the line should cause the relief valve to unseat and relieve the pressure, so we can be sure any excess pressure needs the valve at the pump looking at.

High PB ,

By on-demand oil pumps I mean the following -

https://www.audi-technology-portal....iency-technologies/demand-controlled-oil-pump

On-demand a bit of a poor name imo,
Variable delivery oil pump or demand variable delivery oil pump would have been clearer.

Everyone Please don't slam me for adding
this , it is related to oil pressure and relevant if twin air has a similar system.

Thanks Jack

 

[jackwhoo]

News just in....The twin air does have a variable capacity oil pump aka on demand oil pump

 

[jackwhoo]

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=14634

Photo of twin air actuator

Is the flying lead attached to a pressure sensor screwed into the actuator?

The valve solenoids have their own separate connecters.

 

[portland_bill]

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=14634

Photo of twin air actuator

I think that is part of the inlet valve mechanism, not the oil pump.

 

[jackwhoo]

I think that is part of the inlet valve mechanism, not the oil pump.

Hi , yes definately nothing to do with the oil pump in the sump.

it is the twin air actuator part valve operating system but it does pressurise oil internally.
It would be logical if this unit contains an oil pressure sensor to feed back info to the engine ecu.

We definitely need more info.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi , yes definately nothing to do with the oil pump in the sump.

it is the twin air actuator part valve operating system but it does pressurise oil internally.
It would be logical if this unit contains an oil pressure sensor to feed back info to the engine ecu.

We definitely need more info.

Hi Jack. Unfortunately - because it's another thing which could go wrong - my 1.0 3 cylinder Ibiza (CHZB engine) has one of these variable demand oil pumps. Seems to me that it would be entirely logical and necessary for the ECU to "know" what the to oil pressure is at any given point for it to apply control? I'll see if i can find out any info on it and report back if I do. If not ECU controlled then it would presumably respond to revs? which would be a pretty crude way to do it?
regards
Jock

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just came across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_OSsaOpmGA
No obvious electronic control going on here?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

And here's an Audi one, probably basically what's in my Ibiza?:
https://www.audi-technology-portal....iency-technologies/demand-controlled-oil-pump
Seems to have an electrically controlled solenoid (shown in the latter part of the video). Don't see any sign of a sensor but it may be a built in part of the solenoid? Surely it would have to monitor working oil pressure to "know" when to activate the solenoid?
I'm still "on the case" but have to take grandchildren to the Botanic Gardens now so probably won't be back on here for a wee while (fingers crossed the rain stays away as we are walking there and back!)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

A quick PS just before I go - kids are in the loo - I think this is our oil pump?https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/24024165017?iid=263957807682 if so, doesn't look "bulky" enough to contain any "variable" parts? OOPs, we're going. Now Granny is cross with Granddad for not being ready!

 

[jackwhoo]

A quick PS just before I go - kids are in the loo - I think this is our oil pump?https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/24024165017?iid=263957807682 if so, doesn't look "bulky" enough to contain any "variable" parts? OOPs, we're going.

https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/parts/500_Lubrication.shtml

Hi Jock ,

Click on that link scroll to bottom of page and click on the pick of the twin air oil pump , that pic shows what I think is a solenoid attached.

Hope you air enjoy botanical gardens- stay safe(-:

Jack

 

[koalar]

over 80psi. Any suggestions?

I got the car a few months ago and the yellow triangle has always been on.

Thanks for the feed back guys. I have already changed the oil with the recomended speck 0-30 and its now had a second oil filter, this time a genuine fiat one. I do trust my garage as i have known them for years but the 80psi i spoke about was on tickover and as they picked the revs up the pressure began to clime so they turned it off.

I can't believe a car run for several months that starts at 20 PSI over the normal max pressure and climbs rapidly doesn't have other problems. If that pressure is correct and transferred around the whole system. At the very minimum I would expect there would be a trail of blue smoke.

 

[DaveMcT]

The TwinAir uses oil pressure to control the engine valves. Normal oil pressure is unlikely to do the job so it's likely the T/A oil pump makes a much high pressure.

Could it be that 80psi is too low for the T/A valves to work correctly and that's why the alarm is up?

 

[koalar]

there's more than one type of oil pump for the twinair .9L here one where an ordinary relieve valve spring and ball is visable.

 

[jackwhoo]

there's more than one type of oil pump for the twinair .9L here one where an ordinary relieve valve spring and ball is visable.

Hi,
Koalar

totally agree the on demand oil pump does also have a manual relief valve.

The TA engine generates it's own very high oil pressure required for valve operation using pistons driven from cam saft ,this very high oil pressure is separate from the oil galleries within the rest of engine.

It is possible that there is an oil pressure sensor in the TA actuator feeding info to the engine ecu .

We don't know if oil pressure was measured by garage using a stand alone test pressure gauge or if they were reading from engine ecu using a scan tool.
So unfortunately we have no idea what pressure they were reading.



Best wishes
Jack

 

[1947Guy]

Thanks for the info Portland_Bill. I have orderd, from ebay, a cheap oil pressure gauge kit so that I can double check the readings that the garage took are correct before I take the sump down. You never know their gauge may have suddenly gone hay wire. It does seem strange that I have been able to drive the car around all this time with no symtems apart from the yellow triangle. Gauge should be here on Wednesday, I keep you informed.

 

[koalar]

I don't know where the ECU gets its information

the photo above uses a standard single diaphragm switched pressure gauge that just measures pressure over .3 bar.

there are double switched that measure under and over but isn't fitted to the pump posted above.


lost interest if anyone wants to see if there is either another one is fitted ?

or different switch fitted in different years.