Hi all, new on here and new to Pandas. Just bought a 2011 1.2. I've had an issue with starting in that if I just put the key in and immediately turn it over it spins away without firing. If I put the key in, turn on the ignition for a few seconds without cranking and then spin it over it starts straight away. I'm thinking maybe fuel pressure is low caused by a tired pump (71k miles). Anyone had this issue? TIA
Technical Fuel pressure issue??
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Technical Fuel pressure issue??
Hello and welcome to the forum.
I'm wondering if this is just the normal behaviour of the immobiliser.
I'm wondering if this is just the normal behaviour of the immobiliser.
Me too jrk. Like many on here my start up procedure is to turn the key to the first position and wait for the little padlock sign to go out - which allows both the keychip and imobiliser to "talk" to each other and for the fuel pump to run briefly thus building up pressure. Following this procedure always results in a very quick fire up - maybe going over compression half a dozen times at most (One and a half crank revs) The only "weird" exception to this was when her battery was starting to fail. She cranked quite well but a bit more slowly than usual and I would guess she would take a good half dozen crank revs before "catching" The new battery immediately restored her normal starting characteristics. I guess one way you could check for low fuel pressure would be to find a nice long hill and then try going up it with a large throttle opening and engine revs at medium to high (maybe in the 3,000 to 5,000 range) This should put a demand for a large and sustained fuel flow on the system and so show up if fuel supply is restricted?
This "thing" with modern cars experiencing poor starting when their batteries are dropping off in performance is insidious. In days gone by if the battery was good enough to crank the engine it would usually start unless there was another problem too. With modern electronics they need to "see" a minimum voltage before they will work properly and it's quite possible to have a battery which has enough "oomph" to slowly - or maybe not so slowly? - crank the engine but, due to the load on it, have a circuit voltage which drops below the threshold required by the electronics. You think it should start because it's able to crank (albeit usually rather slowly) but in fact the plugs and motorized throttle and other "stuff" aren't functioning because the draw on the battery has dropped the voltage too low for them. Checking with one of the modern battery testers will quickly give confirmation. Some of us were recently having an interesting discussion about them here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/battery-testers-old-vs-new-technology.500470/ which you might find interesting and this might be of interest too:
It's about time we got to the bottom of this
I have had 3 Pandas
05 1.2 flyby wire
06 1.1 cable
10 1.2 eco flyby wire
None have done this. You can open the door by key or remote (except the active) , jump in the car, not bother shutting the door or putting a seat belt on and immediately turn the key and it starts
Why some do this I don't know
One of many possibilitys would be the ignition switch. The 05 had a similar problem when I first got it
If you turned the key to crank, nothing
If you turned the ignition on and waited until the lights went out it would crank fine
Earth/battery is another possibility, this would be my guess, possibly around the chassis mount. The eco normally have a braided cable with no insulation that can corrode badly
I would start by when it's cranking and not starting observe what is happening on the dash
Immobiliser light on, key not seen
Rev counter if your car has one is the needle moving, ECU, crank sensor, body computer, dash all need to talk to each other
I have had 3 Pandas
05 1.2 flyby wire
06 1.1 cable
10 1.2 eco flyby wire
None have done this. You can open the door by key or remote (except the active) , jump in the car, not bother shutting the door or putting a seat belt on and immediately turn the key and it starts
Why some do this I don't know
One of many possibilitys would be the ignition switch. The 05 had a similar problem when I first got it
If you turned the key to crank, nothing
If you turned the ignition on and waited until the lights went out it would crank fine
Earth/battery is another possibility, this would be my guess, possibly around the chassis mount. The eco normally have a braided cable with no insulation that can corrode badly
I would start by when it's cranking and not starting observe what is happening on the dash
Immobiliser light on, key not seen
Rev counter if your car has one is the needle moving, ECU, crank sensor, body computer, dash all need to talk to each other
Not on the three cars I have owned
However there are a lot variables, software versions, optional extras and so on.
It might be as simple as only happen on cars with, let's pick something at random
Blue & Me
It come up regular enough, including the 500s for us to try toget to the bottom of it.
Unfortunately mine have never done this othwise I would run some tests
In fact I must say mine - 2012 Eco Dymanic 1.2 - starts fine both ways. I just prefer to let the pump prime the system first. Mrs J always does it this way as our previous car was the Cordoba TDI which, of course, being a diesel, and an early one at that, had a glow plug light which you had to let extinguish before operating the starter motor. She got so used to doing this that when she saw the Panda had a light which went out shortly after turning the key, she thought it was the same idea so always waited till the light went out. I didn't even realise she was doing this until we'd had the car for more than a year!
Interestingly, or not? our car has the exposed braided earth lead - which reminds me it's looking pretty green (but didn't fall apart last time I wiggled it) so I think it'll be getting renewed this summer.
Interestingly, or not? our car has the exposed braided earth lead - which reminds me it's looking pretty green (but didn't fall apart last time I wiggled it) so I think it'll be getting renewed this summer.
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I got replacement earth cables from Halfords. The black insulated type has a much thinner crimp than the uninsulated type. I got the latter and wrapped with self-amalgamating tape.
Thanks Dave. I'll have a look at what's in our branch next time I'm in. I actually find Halfords are very useful for this sort of thing and very reasonably priced.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Our 2011 car lead was green too. I took it off last summer and it was in very sound condition and both ends had a good clean contact. I gave it a good clean with WD40 and a brass wire brush and put it back coated on copper grease. The price of new earth leads is eye watering!
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The price of copper is eye watering.
Mine does this too.
It is 2006, 59k miles. As above, I turn the key and wait for the lights to go out. If I immediately try to start it, it will turn 4-5 times before firing. If I wait until the pump stops, then immediately try to start it, it fires immediately. I've thought for a while that the pump was getting tired, seems that could be a good diagnosis. Once running, it is fine. Currently no plans to replace the pump.
As I said earlier in this thread, Becky, our 2010 1.2 Eco Dynamic doesn't seem to suffer this problem, she starts well whether you wait for the light to go out or not. However, she did suffer this problem for some time before I fitted her new battery, definitely cranking for longer if you didn't wait for the padlock light to go out. Might be an idea to monitor cranking voltage? especially if you have a multimeter which can "hold" the lowest voltage registered.
I have a few observations, may be useful, or not.
Never actually had a Panda (petrol) fuel pump failure, and some of the Pandas I've seen had big mileages. I'm ignoring diesel Pandas for the moment as they can have other issues which look similar but don't apply to petrol ones.
I normally don't rush turning the key, but I have just tried it on 4 Pandas of varying age/condition/mileage (I was bored and it was raining!)
One (10 plate Active Eco) did seem to dislike the instant turn of the key. The others all seemed fine.
Could be coincidence, but the one that struggled has an old (possibly original) battery. The others have all had a new battery within the last 3 years (I know this because I write the registration number and date of installation on the battery)
All 4 normally start with minimal cranking when not instantly turning the key.
I put the smart charger on the Active Eco for a couple of hours and retried. Instant key turn worked fine.
I know all 4 have good earth lead connections as I have replaced them in routine servicing over the last few years.
Don't have one with a poor earth lead at the moment, so unable to test with jump lead trick.
Circumstantial evidence seems to point to battery/earth lead condition as likely causes, but definitely not conclusive.
Not sure if it helps much.
Never actually had a Panda (petrol) fuel pump failure, and some of the Pandas I've seen had big mileages. I'm ignoring diesel Pandas for the moment as they can have other issues which look similar but don't apply to petrol ones.
I normally don't rush turning the key, but I have just tried it on 4 Pandas of varying age/condition/mileage (I was bored and it was raining!)
One (10 plate Active Eco) did seem to dislike the instant turn of the key. The others all seemed fine.
Could be coincidence, but the one that struggled has an old (possibly original) battery. The others have all had a new battery within the last 3 years (I know this because I write the registration number and date of installation on the battery)
All 4 normally start with minimal cranking when not instantly turning the key.
I put the smart charger on the Active Eco for a couple of hours and retried. Instant key turn worked fine.
I know all 4 have good earth lead connections as I have replaced them in routine servicing over the last few years.
Don't have one with a poor earth lead at the moment, so unable to test with jump lead trick.
Circumstantial evidence seems to point to battery/earth lead condition as likely causes, but definitely not conclusive.
Not sure if it helps much.
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My 100HP went though a phase of doing this, though a new battery might have helped. However, after being parked for a few weeks during lock-down it refused to start. The starter turned but nothing happened. I rebuilt the ignition switch. Nothing untoward was found and it made no difference to engine starting. I tested the fuel pump power supply including watching fuel pumping from the fuel raiI. Still non-starting. I went though testing every single fuse and every relay was tested with a 9V PP3 battery. Nada Nothing. I even swapped relays around - still nothing.
Then one day it started and has done fine ever since, I conject the problem was a sticking or lazy relay but have no proof. I've also noticed that odd pause to start issue at key-on has completely gone. So try swapping your relays about (obviously, check they are like for like). That might be all it needs.
Then one day it started and has done fine ever since, I conject the problem was a sticking or lazy relay but have no proof. I've also noticed that odd pause to start issue at key-on has completely gone. So try swapping your relays about (obviously, check they are like for like). That might be all it needs.
Yes it's helpful
It proves it's a problem, although people often just see it as a feature
I don't read the 500 section very often. But I have seen some YouTube videos of the same problem, has anyone over there ever got to the bottom of this feature?
It sounds like a slight electrical issue to me
I did suspect a battery or charge issue as often a car isn't driven before it's sold
A couple of obvious tests would be
Substitute a known good battery
And
Testing with a set of jump leads good ground to good ground and positive to positive
For a good ground point on the panda I use the gearbox selector bracket
