Technical Help! Panda 1.2 gearbox gone can I fit 1.1 ?

[Orooro]

Hi gearbox gone on my 2004 Fiat Panda Dynamic 1.2 (2WD)

The breaker said I can fit FIAT PANDA GEARBOX 1.1 8v FIVE SPEED MANUAL 2003 - 2011

Only difference it will rev a bit higher ?

Just want to double check before I drive to collect it and then get garage to fit it!

Thanks I’m advance

 

[koalar]

The two gearboxes use different ratios and final drive


But the overall ratios are the same

But they way they achieve them is different

I doubt you would notice any difference, but it's not something I have tried myself

 

[Orooro]

Thanks for speedy reply - any idea how much a garage would charge to swap th out?

 

[Orooro]

The two gearboxes use different ratios and final drive


But the overall ratios are the same


View attachment 474618

But they way they achieve them is different


View attachment 474620

I doubt you would notice any difference, but it's not something I have tried myself

Thanks for speedy reply - any idea how much a garage would charge to swap th out?

 

[koalar]

Nope, it's basically the same job as a clutch change, I see someone was charged £350 3 years ago, not sure if that's plus VAT, garages charges seem to make things up as they go these days

It can be done in an hour but that's really pushing it

But you shouldn't get charged more than 3 hours on a garage lift in my opinion

Might as well throw a new clutch on if it's not had one recently

What's up with the old gearbox

The secondhand gearbox might need some new parts, look for oil leaks, if you wiggle the end of the input shaft it should feel solid, I would replace the input and drive shaft oil seals regardless, you don't want to pay twice for the same labour

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Nope, it's basically the same job as a clutch change, I see someone was charged £350 3 years ago, not sure if that's plus VAT, garages charges seem to make things up as they go these days

It can be done in an hour but that's really pushing it

But you shouldn't get charged more than 3 hours on a garage lift in my opinion

Might as well throw a new clutch on if it's not had one recently

What's up with the old gearbox

The secondhand gearbox might need some new parts, look for oil leaks, if you wiggle the end of the input shaft it should feel solid, I would replace the input and drive shaft oil seals regardless, you don't want to pay twice for the same labour

Not much I can think to add to that. As koalar says, give the input shaft a good waggling - side to side and up and down. The input shaft bearing is a known weak point on them as they get older. The shaft is a solid shaft which runs the length of the box so no lateral play should be felt. Often the seal will be leaking too so you'll see oil inside the bell housing. Any signs of either of these problems and it's not worth using it without renewing the bearing and seal. I also agree to stick a clutch in at the same time as it'll be a gearbox out job to do that in the future so unless the existing clutch is pretty new just put a new one in.

Like koalar above, I'd be interested to know what's condemned the old box?

 

[Orooro]

Not much I can think to add to that. As koalar says, give the input shaft a good waggling - side to side and up and down. The input shaft bearing is a known weak point on them as they get older. The shaft is a solid shaft which runs the length of the box so no lateral play should be felt. Often the seal will be leaking too so you'll see oil inside the bell housing. Any signs of either of these problems and it's not worth using it without renewing the bearing and seal. I also agree to stick a clutch in at the same time as it'll be a gearbox out job to do that in the future so unless the existing clutch is pretty new just put a new one in.

Like koalar above, I'd be interested to know what's condemned the old box?

Based on other threads it sounds like the input shaft is the issue but I’m no expert

Ive read on a few posts to get the seals and bearings done at the same time is this something that the garage will have to hand or will need specifically ordering as well?

Thanks again

 

[The Panda Nut]

The two gearboxes use different ratios and final drive


But the overall ratios are the same


View attachment 474618

But they way they achieve them is different


View attachment 474620

I doubt you would notice any difference, but it's not something I have tried myself

I agree. The torque of both engines is unlikely to break anything. The only caveat is a new clytch may also be needed ??

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Based on other threads it sounds like the input shaft is the issue but I’m no expert

Ive read on a few posts to get the seals and bearings done at the same time is this something that the garage will have to hand or will need specifically ordering as well?

Thanks again

Is this garage a Fiat main dealer, Fiat specialist, or just a general repair workshop? Probably none of those would hold the bearing and associated parts in stock, although a big main dealer might. Shouldn't be too difficult to get ordered up though. To renew the bearing there are several ways to do it but all involve an amount of dismantling of the gearbox and there are not many general workshops, and maybe not even a Fiat specialist, who will undertake this now a days. most will push the box out to a gearbox repair specialist. Be sure to get an estimate for the price of repair before giving the go ahead.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I agree. The torque of both engines is unlikely to break anything. The only caveat is a new clytch may also be needed ??

This chap is talking about possible damage to the input shaft bearing? in which case oil contamination of the clutch driven plate is a distinct possibility. It's only a few minutes work to whip the cover assembly off once the gearbox is removed, so I'd be doing that and inspecting the driven plate (friction plate) and renewing if wear is evident or contaminated in any way at all.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As a general comment to all. I've not actually ever had to deal with this problem - by which I mean replacing the input shaft bearing and seal - however I've read multiple posts about it and peoples thinking behind why their bearing failed. One theme which seems to be emerging is that these bearings sometimes come with plastic bearing cages and some with metal ones. I'm talking here about the separator which keeps the ball bearings evenly spaced around the races. The suggestion is that the plastic cages have been seen to partially melt? and this then allows the balls to "crowd " on the side opposite to where the force is being applied. This lets the shaft run off centre which destroys the oil seal and eventually leads to disintegration of the bearing. Gets quite noisy before that happens so hopefully a prudent owner will stop using it before catastrophic failure occurs. Personally, if I were doing the job, I'd be ensuring the bearing I bought had a metal cage. Although how you could ensure that I'm not sure, especially if you're ordering on line?

Anyone with more intimate knowledge than me, able to enlighten us further?

 

[The Panda Nut]

As a general comment to all. I've not actually ever had to deal with this problem - by which I mean replacing the input shaft bearing and seal - however I've read multiple posts about it and peoples thinking behind why their bearing failed. One theme which seems to be emerging is that these bearings sometimes come with plastic bearing cages and some with metal ones. I'm talking here about the separator which keeps the ball bearings evenly spaced around the races. The suggestion is that the plastic cages have been seen to partially melt? and this then allows the balls to "crowd " on the side opposite to where the force is being applied. This lets the shaft run off centre which destroys the oil seal and eventually leads to disintegration of the bearing. Gets quite noisy before that happens so hopefully a prudent owner will stop using it before catastrophic failure occurs. Personally, if I were doing the job, I'd be ensuring the bearing I bought had a metal cage. Although how you could ensure that I'm not sure, especially if you're ordering on line?

Anyone with more intimate knowledge than me, able to enlighten us further?

BEARINGS IN PLASTIC CAGES! Childrens bikes, and then only if you dont spot it first and walk away! Sorry but its a silly engineering solution and I woudlnt knowingly entertain anything with it, even if plastics are nowquite clever. Beko washing machine-drum bearings are like this and ruin othrrwise good appliances prematurely. Beko otherwise seem great kit

 

[Orooro]

Change of plan - found a 1.2 that’s actually cheaper

Fiat Panda Gearbox 5 speed Manual 03-11 1.2 Petrol 60 day Warranty

any flags should fit right ?

 

[koalar]

Pro

Change of plan - found a 1.2 that’s actually cheaper

Fiat Panda Gearbox 5 speed Manual 03-11 1.2 Petrol 60 day Warranty

any flags should fit right ?

Selector oil seal gone

No big deal

 

[Orooro]

Pro

Selector oil seal gone

No big deal

Hi thanks for reply - just checking this will fit my vehicle (the gearbox is taken from a 2007)

selector seal is this something I would need to order for the garage (they are general garage not fiat specialist)

 

[koalar]

Hi thanks for reply - just checking this will fit my vehicle (the gearbox is taken from a 2007)

Yes

selector seal is this something I would need to order for the garage (they are general garage not fiat specialist)

They are about £5 fairly easy find, fairly easy to fit

Most garages prefer to order the part themselves

 

[James2300]

Today, a Friend got his 2011 Panda Mylife back from the local garage having a new gearbox and clutch fitted. As far as we can tell the gearbox failed due to an oil leak. The garage completed the work in a day. Cost? £1400 which I didn't think was bad. Car just under 60.000 miles

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi gearbox gone on my 2004 Fiat Panda Dynamic 1.2 (2WD)

The breaker said I can fit FIAT PANDA GEARBOX 1.1 8v FIVE SPEED MANUAL 2003 - 2011

Only difference it will rev a bit higher ?

Just want to double check before I drive to collect it and then get garage to fit it!

Thanks I’m advance

Is your mileage correct? i.e. 530,000 miles? Thats a lot.

 

[AnthonyH]

Today, a Friend got his 2011 Panda Mylife back from the local garage having a new gearbox and clutch fitted. As far as we can tell the gearbox failed due to an oil leak. The garage completed the work in a day. Cost? £1400 which I didn't think was bad. Car just under 60.000 miles

Could be a lot cheaper. You could buy some 2011 Pandas for less than £1400.

 

[koalar]

BEARINGS IN PLASTIC CAGES! Childrens bikes, and then only if you dont spot it first and walk away! Sorry but its a silly engineering solution and I woudlnt knowingly entertain anything with it, even if plastics are nowquite clever. Beko washing machine-drum bearings are like this and ruin othrrwise good appliances prematurely. Beko otherwise seem great kit

It's quite a specialized bearing and expensive

It's glass reinforced plastic with a reinforcing ring on one side

I no idea why it was chosen, all the other bearing in the gearbox have standard metal cages

I had two gearboxes go past 200 000 miles without any problems

I bought a car with a blown input bearing, it died straight after clutch change, it's not the only one I know of that failed straight after a clutch change, I suspect low oil is the cause but no proof, the gearbox casing in the panda was modified to improve oil flow to the bearing over earlier cars