Technical Help, 2013 4x4 non starter, error codes

[Frankie99]

2013 mk3 4x4 twin air trekking/climbing problem, any help advice please.

Recently home serviced (oil, filters, plugs, brakes) then driven ok for 2 trips, about 1.5 hours, no problems. Parked up for a week and now turns over but will not start. Display shows fault messages (eld, hill hold etc not available). Tried resetting the brake switch which caused

similar messages a while ago but no change. Video of start sequence above.

I can hear the fuel pump prime but spark plugs are dry. Using a Carista obd reader which reads 1 ecu, I get consistent error codes of P0657, P1032 and P1684 (i.e. if I clear the codes and retest they appear every time) and the occasional P1011. I have tried disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes but no change, and I have visually inspected the underbonnet wiring (under the air filter), jiggled wires and connectors all to no avail.
It has occasionally done ‘odd’ things in the past such as not turning over, and once the entire dash display blanked but the old switching it off and back on again always worked, so nothing to fault find.

Any suggestions please? I am in mid Wales (Welshpool area) and getting it to a Fiat dealer would be a major faff and expense.

 

[A3jeroen]

Battery fully charged?

gr J

 

[Frankie99]

Battery fully charged?

gr J

Battery full, trickle charged overnight. Motor spins but no sign of firing up.

 

[koalar]

Multiair been not used for a bit

The oil will need purging before it will start? Maybe

Your in the wrong section your is a mk4

 

[Frankie99]

Mk4! Doh!

 

[koalar]

The error codes don't seem to point in any particular component

throttle
Engine
Gearbox



P1684-94-ETC MOTOR SELF-LEARNING (UNEXPECTED OPERATION)
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to appropriate SYSTEM WIRING DIAGRAMS article .
THEORY OF OPERATION
The Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) motor is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The DC
motor located in the throttle body drives the throttle blade. In order to decrease idle speed, along with spark and
fuel delivery changes the PCM commands the throttle closed reducing air flow into the engine and the idle
speed decreases. In order to increase idle speed, the PCM commands the throttle plate open allowing more air to
pass the throttle plate.
WHEN MONITORED
With the ignition on and the ETC Motor is not in Limp Home mode.

P1032-00-CYLINDER 2 OIL SUPPLY SOLENOID VALVE DRIVER VOLTAGE IMPLAUSIBLE

P0657-ACTUATOR SUPPLY VOLTAGE "A" CIRCUIT/OPEN
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to appropriate SYSTEM WIRING DIAGRAMS article .
THEORY OF OPERATION
The Transmission Control Module (TCM) performs basic system checks to ensure proper controller operation.
This Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) sets if the TCM detects an internal Linear solenoid driver error.
WHEN MONITORED
Ignition on, engine running.

P1011 does not exist on my fiat specific model list

It has occasionally done ‘odd’ things in the past such as not turning over, and once the entire dash display blanked but the old switching it off and back on again always worked, so nothing to fault find.

Measure the voltage between the engine block and the battery negative terminal, while cranking would also be a sensible first step


We can see you have a crank signal

Checking for spark would also be a sensible move


But I have no experience with the multiair

 

[Frankie99]

The error codes don't seem to point in any particular component

throttle
Engine
Gearbox



P1684-94-ETC MOTOR SELF-LEARNING (UNEXPECTED OPERATION)
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to appropriate SYSTEM WIRING DIAGRAMS article .
THEORY OF OPERATION
The Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) motor is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The DC
motor located in the throttle body drives the throttle blade. In order to decrease idle speed, along with spark and
fuel delivery changes the PCM commands the throttle closed reducing air flow into the engine and the idle
speed decreases. In order to increase idle speed, the PCM commands the throttle plate open allowing more air to
pass the throttle plate.
WHEN MONITORED
With the ignition on and the ETC Motor is not in Limp Home mode.

P1032-00-CYLINDER 2 OIL SUPPLY SOLENOID VALVE DRIVER VOLTAGE IMPLAUSIBLE

P0657-ACTUATOR SUPPLY VOLTAGE "A" CIRCUIT/OPEN
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to appropriate SYSTEM WIRING DIAGRAMS article .
THEORY OF OPERATION
The Transmission Control Module (TCM) performs basic system checks to ensure proper controller operation.
This Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) sets if the TCM detects an internal Linear solenoid driver error.
WHEN MONITORED
Ignition on, engine running.

P1011 does not exist on my fiat specific model list




Measure the voltage between the engine block and the battery negative terminal, while cranking would also be a sensible first step


We can see you have a crank signal

View attachment 444236View attachment 444237

Checking for spark would also be a sensible move


But I have no experience with the multiair

Thanks for the responses.
Its a twin air, my mistake earlier posting to wrong forum hasnt helped!
Battery negative to block is 5 ohms, and shows 140mV drop during cranking.
Tried a jumper lead battery -ve to block, no change
Tried jumper leads to fully charged range rover battery, no change.
Plugs out (wet with fuel) and good spark at both when cranking.
My only idea now is to spend a rainy bank holiday working my way through the fuses and relays in the hope of spotting something wrong.

 

[A3jeroen]

Plugs wet with fuel may mean you have flooded it. What if you leave the sparkplugs out, remove the fuse for the fuelsystem (16 or 17 would be my suggestion) and crank it for a short while. Plugs and fuse back and it might start right away.

gr J

 

[jackwhoo]

Should there be an imobiliser light come on then go off ?

 

[varesecrazy]

It sounds like you have plans to work through this, your nearest Full Diagnostic plug-in may be from near Wrexham, member @s130

Wetting plugs sounds strange..

Not sure if testing for sparks is a simple operation for you..?

 

[Frankie99]

It sounds like you have plans to work through this, your nearest Full Diagnostic plug-in may be from near Wrexham, member @s130

Wetting plugs sounds strange..

Not sure if testing for sparks is a simple operation for you..?

Thanks all for the ideas, so not quite given up yet…
I will look up what the immobiliser light is supposed to do.
I have good sparks with plugs removed from head, connected to coil packs and in good contact with top of engine to ground them.
And I will try removing the fuel pump fuse too. (Looks like n/s headlight removal is needed to get good access to the fuse/relay box?)

 

[varesecrazy]

If you hear the fuel pump run, have sparks..
I wouldn't be chasing an immobiliser issue

It's a weird one

Obvious next phase..
Check it's getting METERED air

Clear out the airfilter, check the airflow sensor

Presumably if this is wildly out the fuelling will be miles out also

Whats your history with this Panda?

 

[Panda IIs]

@Frankie99 Why is the clock flashing in your video? There's another thread on here that suggests that's an indicator of a dud battery and certainly all those faults on the display point to that. It doesn't sound too perky when you are cranking it either (compared to my TA).

 

[varesecrazy]

@Frankie99 Why is the clock flashing in your video? There's another thread on here that suggests that's an indicator of a dud battery and certainly all those faults on the display point to that. It doesn't sound too perky when you are cranking it either (compared to my TA).

Flashing lights are often due to camera operation

They said it had a good booster battery on it.. But always worth swapping out completely.

 

[Panda IIs]

Flashing lights are often due to camera operation

I'd take that if the whole display was aliasing but just the clock, not so sure?

 

[Frankie99]

If you hear the fuel pump run, have sparks..
I wouldn't be chasing an immobiliser issue

It's a weird one

Obvious next phase..
Check it's getting METERED air

Clear out the airfilter, check the airflow sensor

Presumably if this is wildly out the fuelling will be miles out also

Whats your history with this Panda?

Ta, any guide as to how to check the airflow sensor?
We have had the car for about 6 years as a local runaround. It has mostly behaved itself but random electrical issues (display blanking once, cured by off-on, cut out after emergency braking stop several times, again off-on gets it going, wont crank twice, again off-on gets it going).

 

[Frankie99]

I'd take that if the whole display was aliasing but just the clock, not so sure?

Clock flashing as I had the battery disconnected as an idea to maybe reset things (didnt work) and setting the date/time is currently low priority!

 

[varesecrazy]

Sounding as likely a "system error", bad wiring connection somewhere as a mechanical fault

Hoping you could get it plugged in to see the bigger picture

Not sure who else has MES.. Or ALFAOBD.. up in Powys

I am hours away unfortunately

 

[koalar]

140mV drop less than 200mV

Earth is good, no need to revisit

Plugs out (wet with fuel)

We have fuel and injectors are firing, immobilizer is fine, otherwise the ECU wouldn't be firing the injectors

and a good spark

Are you sure you have compression, should be turning over at around 300rpm, what it says with your scan tool

Multiair valves are oil operated

Have you tried post 4

 

[Frankie99]

140mV drop less than 200mV

Earth is good, no need to revisit

Plugs out (wet with fuel)

We have fuel and injectors are firing, immobilizer is fine, otherwise the ECU wouldn't be firing the injectors

and a good spark

Are you sure you have compression, should be turning over at around 300rpm, what it says with your scan tool

Multiair valves are oil operated

Have you tried post 4

You have confirmed my thoughts that its not an immobilser issue, thanks.
I will check compression and rpm tomorrow and post results
I would happily do an oil purge if I knew how (but oil pressure is ok, or was when it was running just before deciding to have a hissy fit).