Off Topic Guys.. please help me, for i think i may sin...

[Dragon Man]

Guys.. i find myself in a bit of a spot here.. as of late i have been getting really into my brothers car.. which is a 2013 Suzuki Swift 1.3DDiS (Basically the 1.3 multi jet mk2 engine)
its pretty much all i want in a car.. Diesel.. super cheap insurance and tax and the running costs are a dream for some one like me. my brother is getting 80mpg out of this thing and more since he took the EGR off.

im getting no where near that with Talon.. and the Tax kills me every year.

i have been looking at the more modern panda with the 1.3 multijet mk1 engine in.. you can get them for under £2000 now days. the mk1 multi jet does 10mpg less but its not choked up to the eyeballs with all the damn emission control stuff on it.
as always i am not looking for something pretty. i have and never will care for "street cred".

now umm.. i think Talon would fetch around that price if i was to sell him. i would put him all back to carburettor and he would be exactly the same as the day he left the factory engine wise. i would leave all the bull bars and light grills on him and even include the original doors that need repairing.

the thing is.. i really love Talon. like, he was my childhood dream car... and Fallout is to become one day all what Talon is and more.... i cant afford a modern(er) panda without getting big cash. selling talon would be the most easy way to make that cash. i also would have the issue of having 3 cars.
yes i have done it before with BEX but that was going to be a quick fixup and sell in an attempt to make a little cash. which failed big time as it always does whenever i try to make money.
i can only also afford to have one car on the road at one point in time. insurance is still a killer. if only you could swap it over for free from one car to another whilly nilly.

Talon would be worth the most out of the 2 cars i have. Fallout is just a bit of fun but only worth its money as spares (even though its about road ready)


i really want a super economical diesel car.. and i really have fell in love with the 1.3 multijet.


guys what do i do.. is it time for a change.. what should i do?

i need to think in the long run what is the best thing to do.

 

[Liquid Knight]

Don't do it. Selling a car you love so you can buy a car you like will be a kick in the arse every time you turn the key.

The new car may be more economical until it goes wrong, won't quality for classic insurance and will be worthless in a few years. Talons value will only go up over time, cost less and days like today even I missed four wheel drive.

£2,000-ish now the mulitjet may be worth £500 in a few years but a decent 4x4 will be worth £4,000+

 

[Panda9001100]

And what you think, what I thought when I read this ? I don't know the rules about taxes and insurance in UK about diesel, petrol or lpg.
But in the Netherlands diesel is an expensive car to drive. And diesel cars has their own problems, which are also expensive to repair.

If you want to drive cheap, do it like me. A classic Panda which run at lpg, believe me or not, it's cheaper driving than diesel. And the FIRE-engines can handle lpg very well. Italians ain't stupid .
Mine green Panda with multipoint runs 14km at 1 litre lpg and the black selecta with monopoint even 15km at 1 litre lpg.

Besides that lpg story, I drive for 14 years in a classic Panda. I know there are better cars, but the fun of a classic Panda . I have sold a Panda before and what was I glad I could bought it back.
Now I have 2 classic's, both running at lpg and proud of them. I will never sell them anymore.

I have also 3 cars, but the Twingo is parked in a garage and will stay there next summer. Saves me taxes and insurance. Besides the Twingo has 2 wheels now, I need to buy 2 tires .

 

[onemanmade]

Honest advice? Keep talon as it will be (and is) the most valuable car. I just know you would kick yourself if you sold talon. Think of all the hours and money you've spent on talon, and all the experience and memories! It got you on TV!!

Honestly if it were me I would make Talon your focus instead of fallout, take the engine from fallout if it is the better and more economical one and transplant it into Talon. Sell any surplus parts from fallout OR sell it as a whole near complete project, then really focus on making Talon the best car, and sorting out those doors!! Rofl

Keep going with your YouTube channel too and keep making money from that. Try and promote it more as I am sure that even more people want to see your videos, I know I do!!

In all honesty I just think you might be trying to spread your resources too thin by having fallout there, not meant to sound harsh obviously John, I like to think we are friends, and friends give their honest advice because they want to see their friend do well.

And as a sub note why I haven't seen people falling over themselves to get the wiper conversion done by you is frankly beyond me.

 

[pandamaniac]

John
Considering the advice you gave to Danidepunto 6 hours ago, maybe you should have another chocolate, glass of beer or whatever takes your fancy and reconsider.
Do you want to be a forum legend or a bored ECO warrior with a car you can't fiddle with.
READ YOUR POST AGAIN
Dave

oh dear gods.. what have you got yourself into.. its not so much the car.. its this section... welcome to "us"
congrads! if you need any help, just ask us..
you'll fall in love with the thing.. and when that happens.. you kinda want to buy another.

 

[Didge3]

You've already got a lot of opinions here but I'll chip in anyway...

Last winter (Christmas day in fact) Char's throttle cable jammed open, it was cold, I had places to be so I didn't fix it then, I was so fed up, she'd been struggling to start in the cold and damp since mid November and quite frankly I was fed up. Fortunately when I sold my Grande Punto and bought Char' I had quite a chunk of leftover money. So I bought something I thought I wanted, a Renault Twingo GT. It was cheap to run but moderately fast which made it fun, luxuries with aircon and what not but it just wasn't the same, after 6months I was really bored with it. Fortunately for me I hadn't sold Char' so I sold the Twingo (at quite a crappy loss, I'd put 8000miles on it in 6months ) fixed Char' up and got her MOT'd.

She's far from perfect, she's slow if there's a hill/headwind/have any passengers, she's not smooth and refined, but she's fun and she's mine. Maybe one day when I can afford it, I'll have a second car as a more modern runabout but until I can afford to have 2 cars on the road Char' will have to remain my one and only.

 

[jeffcapeshop]

From a practical rather than emotional point of view - given limited income, i suppose the question is - when your modern car fails, will you be able to fix it yourself? I imagine that fuel and reliability probably favour the new car over time, but if something goes wrong it could be an unaffordable fix, rather than knowing you can DIY on the cheap. Is it worth that extra tinkering and extra fuel cost for a relatively consistent/knowable expense..

tbh my gut would say the modern car is still probably the more sensible option (but don't do it)

 

[Wee Smurf]

As the owner of a Panda Multijet which has been serviced regularly and had its every need catered for over the last (almost) ten years, I'd say no to selling Talon and buying a Multijet Panda.

Despite mine having been looked after so well, it seriously kicks when things go wrong. Last year was a very costly year in terms of repair bills (around £2K) for me. First there was the timing chain (a heavily discounted £866), followed by the clutch (£425), the brakes (rear drum delaminated causing brake failure £90), glow plugs and a few suspension bits (£500) and then the high pressure fuel injector (replaced by the dealer with a part I sourced from scrapyard for £370 - a reconditioned part from Fiat would have been £680).

Yes it might do an average 65mpg and so be cheap to run on a daily basis, but it's a heck of a lot more expensive when it breaks than a Classic Panda. Unfortunately I learned the hard way. I made the commitment to keep him on the road with the payment of the first fault repair but unfortunately for me it just kept spiraling from there. I'm hoping he's over his hiccups!

 

[Bougainvillea Rosso]

Hi John. Reading between the lines of your post I think you know the answer. Keep Talon! Your reasons for swapping all seem to be entirely practical - and who can blame you for that - BUT it's not just practicality that Talon is all about for you (or even Fallout for that matter!). And when it comes down to it, Pandas give you the best of both worlds. As everyone else has said, they are practical in that you can fix them AND they are not just a means of transport!

 

[andyholli]

I'll echo what's already been said and add - I'm in the fortunate position of having other cars I can use but I keep walking past them and climbing into the Panda without really thinking about it.
I'm not sure why exactly, but it does continue to draw me back because I like to drive it, even though it's the slowest, nosiest, oldest, least comfortable and most difficult option.


Your logic is perfect John, but I don't think this is a logic problem.

 

[firstcar-Y10]

i also would have the issue of having 3 cars.

SShhhhhh don't let on that's an issue, you'll be getting a few of us into trouble there!
I know kind of how you feel, that Peugeot I have on the drive is a nice thing to be in and does sometimes make you think 'why do I put up with that (those) Panda(s)?' OK so the running costs on that thing weren't exactly in its favour BUT... First time something went wrong I looked despairingly under the bonnet and bought another Panda instead! and even that is 15 years old next month, cars have got more difficult to work on again since then. It'll all be lovely until something goes wrong and then you'll be left looking at your fancy modern car thinking 'aw, I can't fix that with a jumbo dog food tin

' and correct me if I'm wrong but the way you talk about your work on the current fleet if your new car does throw up an unexpected few hundred quid repair bill that's going to be an issue.

 

[Dragon Man]

hmm first off thanks for all the replies..

right.. hmm

thing with the 1.3mjet is that it is starting to come into the scrap yards. i never see a classic panda now. i dont even see cinqs or mk1 puntos now they have just about all gone.

now i am not really fussed what car i would get so long as it had the 1.3mjet engine. to me the engine shares loads of things to the fire engine... well it was designed on the fire engine, with the fire engines's reliability in mind.

it seems that the age where things happen to these engines is around the 100k mark. this is where it needs things like cam chains changing, glow plugs looking at. maybe even injectors looking at, cleaning out the EGR and intake manifold.
these are all jobs i could do. and i would not mind doing them

LPGing Talon would be awesome giving Talon a larger engine would be awesome too.
a bigger engine from the punto 60/75 combined with LPG would be totally ideal.
the thing is i cant find this engine anywhere and trying to get one with about the same miles as Talon is just not possible. trying to get LPG in the uk on a home built system would be an impossibility to get it past safety inspection. i would not be able to build it out of bits from this and that. which is how i normally build thing as its the cheapest way i can do it.
the thing with LPG is that if it was "cheap" everyone would have it the overall cost of LPG is not cheap. i would rather just put the money to a cheap more modern car.

i also have other issues with LPG, where the put the tank. where i want it is not a good place (under the boot floor) as i want to keep what little boot space i can. any rear end crash would be an issue and i dont think it would be a valid place for a safety inspection and a car like a panda with no crumple zones.

ahh maybe one day ill get one.

 

[pooroldcodger]

hmm first off thanks for all the replies..

right.. hmm

thing with the 1.3mjet is that it is starting to come into the scrap yards. i never see a classic panda now. i dont even see cinqs or mk1 puntos now they have just about all gone.

now i am not really fussed what car i would get so long as it had the 1.3mjet engine. to me the engine shares loads of things to the fire engine... well it was designed on the fire engine, with the fire engines's reliability in mind.

it seems that the age where things happen to these engines is around the 100k mark. this is where it needs things like cam chains changing, glow plugs looking at. maybe even injectors looking at, cleaning out the EGR and intake manifold.
these are all jobs i could do. and i would not mind doing them

LPGing Talon would be awesome giving Talon a larger engine would be awesome too.
a bigger engine from the punto 60/75 combined with LPG would be totally ideal.
the thing is i cant find this engine anywhere and trying to get one with about the same miles as Talon is just not possible. trying to get LPG in the uk on a home built system would be an impossibility to get it past safety inspection. i would not be able to build it out of bits from this and that. which is how i normally build thing as its the cheapest way i can do it.
the thing with LPG is that if it was "cheap" everyone would have it the overall cost of LPG is not cheap. i would rather just put the money to a cheap more modern car.

i also have other issues with LPG, where the put the tank. where i want it is not a good place (under the boot floor) as i want to keep what little boot space i can. any rear end crash would be an issue and i dont think it would be a valid place for a safety inspection and a car like a panda with no crumple zones.

ahh maybe one day ill get one.

How many miles do you plan on driving? I mean if you are doing a low mileage then a higher mpg does not amount to much when compared with high parts costs and greater complexity of more modern cars does it?

 

[firstcar-Y10]

Hmmm, sounds to me like you've made your mind up and this is a thinly disguised for sale ad for Talon

Somebody call a mod!..oh

 

[Palio]

I'll echo what's already been said and add - I'm in the fortunate position of having other cars I can use but I keep walking past them and climbing into the Panda without really thinking about it.
I'm not sure why exactly, but it does continue to draw me back because I like to drive it, even though it's the slowest, nosiest, oldest, least comfortable and most difficult option.


Your logic is perfect John, but I don't think this is a logic problem.

It's not only me then!! Why is the Abarth EsseEsse sitting there with 8000 miles on the clock (well 8142 to be exact) after 5 years of ownership??!! In every measurable way it's light years ahead of a Panda (any Panda), but what happens, I almost always pick up Panda keys.....

In answer to John's question - of course he should keep Talon! If you want to do it on cost, you'd save £600 going to a diseasel over 10000 miles based on your 80mpg. Additional servicing costs if nothing goes wrong £300, loss in value of a £2k car = £300pa. So you're cost neutral. In reality things will go wrong then you're into spending serious money on the diseasel & Talon is gently appreciating a few £100 a year. No brainer really & that's before I get on to why petrol is better!!

 

[Dragon Man]

ok..
so i have worked out maybe something.

for now i should focus on talon. get him running.

using fallouts swirl pot and a fuel pump from a 899cc cinquecento i should be able to get talon running with no fuelling issues. as i will be using the correct pressure pump for the throttle body.
i will just make another swirl pot for Fallout. in the future.

as for the long run, i would like Talon to have more power so i will be on the look out for a punto 60 or 75 engine. (spread the word around that i am after one)
just driving Fallout up and down our small drive tells me all i need to know. fallout will be an amazing car with the 1.2 engine. and so would Talon.

to be as fast as modern small cars is what i am after overall i guess. economics and cheap tax are just a bonus.

however.. if some one out there has a nice Mjet 1.3 diesel engine with gearbox and complete electronics knocking around.. id give it my best to stick that in a panda haha

i'd loose 4 wheel drive so talon would not be the car i would do that to. but maybe another panda.


besides.. if in 10 years cars have gone from an average of 45mpg to 80.1mpg.. just think what cars will be like in another 10 years.

80.1mpg to.. ????

 

[Bartpanda]

Can't understand one thing, you have nice running 1.2 mpi engine and you pack it to the "farfar from roadworthy" project called fallout the panda to have some up and down rides arround your drive? Why not under talons bonnet? Its your main mean of transportation, with 1.2 it will be faster, more powerfull, and probably a bit cheaper to drive since you do not have to open the throttle much having 1242ccm nice torque{works with my 4x4} .And after talon is improved you may get another 1.2 engine for fun projects

 

[Dragon Man]

fallouts engine is high miles, put in a high miles car..

i want a low miles (under 50 or at max 60k miles) engine to put in Talon. Talon has almost 47k miles on the clock. so an engine around the same would be nice

 

[Didge3]

fallouts engine is high miles, put in a high miles car..

i want a low miles (under 50 or at max 60k miles) engine to put in Talon. Talon has almost 47k miles on the clock. so an engine around the same would be nice

You of all people must know that FIRE engines are built to last, personally when I eventually get Char' a P75/85 (depending on if I feel it worthy the extra running cost of jumping to 16v) I'm not overly bothered about millage, preferably under 80k but I see no reason to worry about high mileage as long as it has a fairly decent history of servicing. Char' has 95k on her 750 and that engine has always been pushed fairly hard I can assure that, you have to with a 750 to gain any acceleration and she's plenty happy to do it all day long

hat's before I get on to why petrol is better!!

I'd hate to go off topic since we so rarely do but I'd love to know your reasons. I have arguments for both but I lean toward petrol every time I have the argument with myself

 

[dragonwagon]

Any Fire will be absolutely fine with hard driving and decent servicing well beyond 200k.
A low mileage engine may well harbour far more wear from doing most of its mileage on choke / cold start.