Off Topic Guys.. please help me, for i think i may sin...

[Palio]

You of all people must know that FIRE engines are built to last, personally when I eventually get Char' a P75/85 (depending on if I feel it worthy the extra running cost of jumping to 16v) I'm not overly bothered about millage, preferably under 80k but I see no reason to worry about high mileage as long as it has a fairly decent history of servicing. Char' has 95k on her 750 and that engine has always been pushed fairly hard I can assure that, you have to with a 750 to gain any acceleration and she's plenty happy to do it all day long


I'd hate to go off topic since we so rarely do but I'd love to know your reasons. I have arguments for both but I lean toward petrol every time I have the argument with myself

Yes I don't see any reason not to have a higher mileage Punto engine with history either. The 1.2 16v in my old (very sad looking!) mk1 Sporting didn't have any engine problems in its 95k & 15 years on the road - not a single one & it's still sweet as a nut. It would be ideal for conversion into a Panda, but I want to get the Punto restored eventually, when they loosen the straight jacket......

I could give you any number of reasons - some would even have a factual basis. These include carcinogenic clouds of smoke & expensive problems with dpf's etc.

The simple reason for me is that I hate diseasel engines. They will not rev anything like like even a bad petrol engine & I despair having to change gear just when it should be getting interesting - they all sound like tractors too (just some are muffled tractors)! I know modern diseasel engines are far better than the monstrosities I had to drive for work in the '90's but I still hate them! People point out that you can now get diseasel which is as quick as a petrol, but you get petrol like consumption if you buy & use a quick diseasel. I'm biased I know, but hey it's a good job we don't all like the same thing. There you go, not very scientific maybe, but you won't convince me otherwise.

 

[Dragon Man]

ahh man.. you have just given me all the point thats good about diesels

changing gear at 1.5k to 2k rpm.. the sound they make.. i dono.. ive just never really liked to hear petrol engines scream.. i like the grunt of a diesel.

i think one of the best sounding diesel engines ever was the one they fit to the Citroen BX
something about the clatter it made.. just sounded awesome. so much so that before i saw talon i was after a BX just for the economics and sound it made.. and the fact that you -never- see them on the road.

and out of all citroens.. they look pretty good too.

[ame]http://youtu.be/oNPKWtDFBTM?t=1m12s[/ame]

 

[dragonwagon]

ahh man.. you have just given me all the point thats good about diesels

changing gear at 1.5k to 2k rpm.. the sound they make.. i dono.. ive just never really liked to hear petrol engines scream.. i like the grunt of a diesel.

i think one of the best sounding diesel engines ever was the one they fit to the Citroen BX
something about the clatter it made.. just sounded awesome. so much so that before i saw talon i was after a BX just for the economics and sound it made.. and the fact that you -never- see them on the road.

and out of all citroens.. they look pretty good too.

http://youtu.be/oNPKWtDFBTM?t=1m12s

And they fall to bits in interesting ways - welds holding the door hinges to the pillars fracture and the door comes off in your hand being one little trick they have....ran Citroens for years - DS, CX and GS/A but avoided the BX tin box.

 

[Dragon Man]

the one we had was awesome. eventually the bearings at the strut tops went.
it was then fixed.. but the guy that fixed it said he wanted it off us and gave us a price would could just not say no at.

the replacement car was a ford Granada Scorpio. with the bigish engine.. was it a v6 with automatic box? whatever it was super thirsty.. :/

theres so many cars i would love to have a drive of.. and none of them sports cars :/

 

[Didge3]

ahh man.. you have just given me all the point thats good about diesels

changing gear at 1.5k to 2k rpm.. the sound they make.. i dono.. ive just never really liked to hear petrol engines scream.. i like the grunt of a diesel.

i think one of the best sounding diesel engines ever was the one they fit to the Citroen BX
something about the clatter it made.. just sounded awesome. so much so that before i saw talon i was after a BX just for the economics and sound it made.. and the fact that you -never- see them on the road.

and out of all citroens.. they look pretty good too.

I like some of the things about diesels, the effortless torque and the kind of grunty sound newer ones can have, but this is all done with special exhausts to hide the true tractor sound they actually produce...
I later found this was more of a turbo thing than the diesel thing though. Strange how most diesels even dating back to old cars have always had turbos, whereas until recently petrol cars rarely have a turbo unless they're specifically a sporty model.
I once drove a Peugeot 205 was a n/a diesel engine, admittedly I didn't drive it far but it was the most awful engine I had ever encountered, it didn't want to rev, it labored everywhere, it was loud and lacked any amount of smoothness and you had to constantly change gear whilst slowly accelerating because it'd constantly wheeze its way to its rev limit
I found that a turbo has lots to play for with my Twingo GT, a little 1.1 engine, accompanied by a small (so quick spool) turbo, making 106hp, not heaps but better than a diesel could scramble from a 1.1. What did I find with this engine? Oh it has heaps of torque for a 1.1, oh I can change gear at 1.5-2k rpm and its perfectly happy, but it also has the advantage that it can scream its head off to 6.5k too (although boost had pretty much dropped off by 5k.... Furthermore, stick to 60mph, gentle throttle and will get 65mpg, I know a diesel will do better, but not by much...
I liked my Twingo's engine, despite that it had 110k miles on it when I sold it, it was a good engine, shame the rest of the car was terribly dull. I definitely think turbocharged is the most fun thing you can do to an engine, you can even get the turbo itself dirt cheap off old crappy diesels that've used them for years to keep up with anything else, its all the electronics that go with it that become costly....

I appear to have written a short story....

 

[Dragon Man]

my brother and i discuss diesels, turbos and other things quite a bit.

one thing that is quite cool with the diesel is the power they have now compaired to the older ones.

i mean it was the old "bigger engine is the only way to get more power" thing back like how it was back in the 1900s.

check out most 90's 2L diesel engines, and the power they gave out. you maybe looking at bout 70HP.. i mean.. 70HP from a 2L engine?! With Turbo??!! thats pretty low...

but look at the modern diesels.. whole new world.

the 1.3mjet does 70HP and that is the lowest spec. the 1.3mjet can do up to 115HP from the factory whilst keeping all of the eco stuff bolted and choking the engine up!


and you know the best thing ever about a diesel engine..

the more power you "unlock" from it.. the more economical it becomes.

diesel over all
sounds better in german, but they dont like it spoken :/

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Early mk2b puntos (53/04) 1.3 multijet, can be picked up for not a lot of money but you need to keep a close eye and be ready to pick one up when it becomes available because they really don't hang around long.

As someone who maintains their own multijet, I find the car is very easy to maintain. Servicing is easy and I prefer to drive my multijet than my 1.4 grande which is boring and gutless, and our 1.6 Mini Cooper D is great fun but the suspension is hard and finds every bump so the multijet punto is more comfy.

I changed my own clutch at a cost of £80, and I know the timing chain is on some cars an issue but at 111k miles it's still running quietly and smooth however I have eyed up on eBay a chain kit and locking tool kit for arround £95-100 so if it starts looking like an issue I will again look at doing it myself.

The thing is if you were to get a second car cheap enough to run then it frees up money to maintain a panda, or more.

With the multijet it's not just the fuel that costs less, people forget it's only £30 at most to tax and the insurance is very cheap as well (especially on the punto).

If they weren't so expensive for what they are I would have a panda cross on the drive which has all the fun of a panda 4x4 with the power of the multijet.

I did my fair share of owning old cars, so for me the only way I would go for an older car these days is with a Ferrari F355 which is my ultimate want.

 

[Didge3]

the more power you "unlock" from it.. the more economical it becomes.

diesel over all
sounds better in german, but they dont like it spoken :/

I still believe this very much applies to turbocharged engines full stop. By 'unlock it' do you mean getting the ECU remapped? Because this is what everyone does with turbo petrol engines, remap ECU, more power + better economy. Harking back to this bloody Renault I keep talking about (sorry its the only turbo car I've had), people on the Twingo forum would get them remapped to 130-140bhp, and gain fuel economy. I'm sorry 140hp from a 1.1?! My friends diesel 2.0litre turbo makes 140 and gets just about 50mpg, the Twingo can easily do 50mpg too. I don't see the advantages of diesel anymore... I'd like to say I'm making these numbers up but I'm really not.

Unless you just really like the noise they make, then there's nothing you can do I really like the sound a carby engine makes, and suffer fuel efficiency as a result

 

[firstcar-Y10]

2.0 td what though? A Twingo (by modern standards) is a teeny little car and my wife's 1.9td Octavia will get comfortably into the 60s mpg and it's the size of both my Pandas put together! Economy can be improved by Diesel and/or driving a smaller car remember. On the Citroen front I used to have a 1.9td ZX and loved it, you could hear the turbo 'whoosh' as you put your foot down and it had a lovely surge of power when you wanted it. Nose heavy handling though with that big heavy lump up front.
The issue I've had with diesels when I've been looking in the past, especially on smaller cars, is buying second hand people tend to buy diesels because they are doing a lot of miles so the fuel savings make a big difference, but because of this you will very rarely find one with a reasonable mileage on for sale. Yes the engines are sturdy but the other stuff isn't so you are still buying a car with a lot of wear and tear on unless you get very lucky. Just my thoughts.

 

[Ziggy122]

If i had a diesel - i'd be putting a preheater kit on it

I CBA to wait for a diesel engine to warm up in winter....

Ziggy

 

[Dragon Man]

^^ as would i..


Talon is fixed..

 

[scout]

I have a feeling someone has fallen in love with his panda again

 

[kolza]

Perhaps adding small glow plugs symbol to the spedo cluster will make you feel more like driving dizzzler?

Glad to hear good news re fuel pump.

 

[Dragon Man]

the way how i see it is if the 1.3 diesel engine from the punto mk2 B fit in the punto.. it will fit in the panda no problem!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

the way how i see it is if the 1.3 diesel engine from the punto mk2 B fit in the punto.. it will fit in the panda no problem!

It's a Different gearbox drive shafts and steering knuckles, wheel bearings hubs brakes and springs compared to the petrol versions.

It's space as well, the multijet engine takes up loads of space with all the additional pipe work for the turbo, intercooler, fuel system pump filter etc

I'm sure it could still be done though. It would just require planning

 

[Panda9001100]

LPGing Talon would be awesome giving Talon a larger engine would be awesome too.
a bigger engine from the punto 60/75 combined with LPG would be totally ideal.

Why aren't the FIRE-engines 1000cc or 1100cc not good enough?

trying to get LPG in the uk on a home built system would be an impossibility to get it past safety inspection. i would not be able to build it out of bits from this and that. which is how i normally build thing as its the cheapest way i can do it.
the thing with LPG is that if it was "cheap" everyone would have it the overall cost of LPG is not cheap. i would rather just put the money to a cheap more modern car.

Also in the Netherlands it isn't allowed to build a lpg-system by yourself in your car. And a business ain't going aprove a selfmade lpg-system in a car. One reason is because of the safety and the second reason, also he wants te earn money.
If you ever get an accident, the firedepartemt likes to know, before they cut open the car to get you out, that's a lpg-tank inside or in you case under the car. But a lpg-tank is saver than the plasticpetroltank of the Panda.

i also have other issues with LPG, where the put the tank. where i want it is not a good place (under the boot floor) as i want to keep what little boot space i can. any rear end crash would be an issue and i dont think it would be a valid place for a safety inspection and a car like a panda with no crumple zones.

Even seen my pic's? Again, with the 70l tank in the boot, nothing will happen. The firedepartmant are less happy with a ripped open petroltank without fire, than a lpg-tank in fire. Liquid fire can't be controlled.
How often you use the boot? That's why I installed a hitch under the Panda, so I can pull a trailer behind it. The limit ain't by the car, but at yourself.

I know that the lpg-system in my black Panda costed twice what I paid for the car, by after 40.000km it has paid itself back. Who will laugh at the end louder? Most people think I have totally lost my mind, it ain't worth the car, or the engine is too small, it will detroy the engine, etc, etc. Didn't I have proven with my Renault Twingo, that even small cars can run at lpg? And Fiat is a smarter contructor of cars, than Renault .
Your current engine will do fine at lpg and it's always nice that some-one can help you with problems. A business knows more about lpg than a driver.

And why most people don't drive lpg? Unfortunately there are a lot of business that build in lpg-systems, but they drive self a diesel. How can you ever sell it working properly, but don't use it by yourself? And there's where the most negative reactions come from. And a negative is 3 times stronger than a positive.
I have 3 cars at lpg, build in by the same business. He's glad with me, offcourse. But also proud that my Twingo runs after 70.000km (has driven 165.000km and from 2000) beautifully at lpg and all hp are still present. The valves are fine. I'm glad too, the Twingo has costed me €750,- less, than when I had driven at petrol all the time.

 

[Bartpanda]

Why aren't the FIRE-engines 1000cc or 1100cc not good enough?

they are ok in 4x2 panda, in stock 4x4 1.0 is only ok with original tyres 145/80-13, with bigger tyres and while doing some serious offroad more torque is required .Have never driven 1100 4x4, so can't say about that engine in 4x4.....

 

[dragonwagon]

Can't say that a lack of torque has ever been an issue for me - one winter in a sheer emergency the old 4x4 was used to tow start our Fiat 450DT tractor out in the field !
It managed where a Land Rover failed.

 

[Bartpanda]

Try dia.62cm 165/80-14 agresive-tread wheels in the deep mud while going uphill 1.0 is stalling on 1st gear

 

[Dragon Man]

theres a gravel road near us that is very steep. you can get half way up it but theres a ridge that talon always dies on.
to get over the ridge you have to reverse up the hill :/

still pretty good though. because talon has fixed front to rear diffs (no transfer box) he can get up the hill, where some of these modern 4x4 with "hill climb" mode enabled cant.

dont think it does the clutch much good though. :/