Panda (Classic) Godiva -- the blue 750L (L is for "Low mileage")

[homeward]

Remembered this previous post about the battery. In the end it still wasn't any good so I fitted a spare I had. I'm sure it's a good one now but may be worth double checking it if you don't find anything else wrong.

I had a feeling you'd changed it... -- thank you!

 

[homeward]

Okay: I am now officially bamboozled... -- and on several fronts...


Starter for 14.62
I broke out my trusty multimeter -- and got the following results:
• before I did anything else (and this is after testing the new lights, the other night, without the car running...) -- 12.62v;
• with the engine running (and no drain) -- 14.52v; and
• then with all lights on, and the fan -- 14.16v...

...so I don't think it's the battery or alternator -- especially as I then drove Pippin until I needed no choke; and back to the house (which I think was very brave...); and checked again (and got very similar results) -- but I shall clean the hedgehogs and the ignition stuff, later in the week, when I'm feeling less knackered....




Radio Carcar
VmanC kindly left this lot in my boot... -- but they're not mine...! How you prove they're yours, I don't know -- but you're a (t)rustworthy lot, aren't you?! (Just bonkers; er, eccentric; er, different; er Pandally challenged; er, special; er... interesting...!)



If someone would like to claim them, I will happily deliver to MITCAR -- or back to Vernon's (probably via MITCAR...!) -- at some stage!


Single cylinder
Found this in the boot.



My gut tells me it's come off the old (wrong... -- who knows?!) gearstick, which was lolling around in there; but, as Pippin has been stripped out, it could come from anywhere...!


Unos what tomorrow brings (or the five-bar blues)
As stated above, your honourable members(?!), Kev kindly donated a spotlight grille; which -- and I refer you to the answer I gave earlier... -- looks like it came from an Uno; but had a Mk2 Punto badge on (which will soon be on my Mk2 Punto: as it looks a lot newer...)!



If you look very carefully, you'll see it has the usual FIAT sloping space, for a //// attachment -- like this...



So... -- having seen a set of five bars for sale on eBay that would fit Pippin's standard 750 grille...



...does anyone know where I could source a smaller set for this one...? :idea:

Have looked; but even my superhuman(?!) Googling skills have resulted in defeat. :bang:


Any help with the above issues will be gratefully and warmly received...! :worship:

 

[homeward]

...I shall clean the hedgehogs and the ignition stuff, later in the week, when I'm feeling less knackered....

Well: the hedgehogs are now clean and shiny (after an attack with contact cleaner and a wire brush); and everything's been reassembled with copious amounts of copper slip... -- Dragon Man, I hope you're proud of me...!

A couple of the connectors (also cleaned) on the hedgehog below the battery came off all too easily, though: so these have been crimped a little tighter....

All I can report, really, is that I haven't made anything worse: as everything still works -- i.e. the car starts; the gauges work; all the lights (bar one of the side indicators) come on when they should, etc.....

Next job, I guess, is the ignition barrel, etc.. However, that will be later in the week, when my stupid old hands have stopped shaking....

PS: VmanC -- do you know what happened to the new boot seal I bought for Pippin? (If you find it, MITCAR will do...!) The old one is still leaking; and I don't want a repeat of the rotten tailgate slam panel incident....

PPS: No-one has yet claimed the HU and speakers; but will bring them to MITCAR, just in case. I also don't know where the metal cylinder (picture in my last post) originated; but I do have a possible solution -- thanks to Partsworld-UK -- to my badgeless grille.

PPPS: I noticed on my way back from Vernon's that the speakers crackle and pop, even when the radio's not on. I shall be installing a new HU and speakers (courtesy of the homewardette -- who wanted something a little more "modern"...) at some stage -- but wondered if there was any obvious reason that sprang to anyone's mind? (What happened to the suppressors we all used to use in the 1980s...?!) It was fine when I first connected everything up: so I shall check all connections, etc..

 

[homeward]

Next job, I guess, is the ignition barrel, etc.. However, that will be later in the week, when my stupid old hands have stopped shaking....

Dosed up on the tail-end of some rather yummy anaesthetics, I decided to try and sort this out, an hour or so ago. :nono:

1. As I haven't got a 24 mm socket, I didn't get as far as removing the steering wheel. (Mrs homeward will kindly be collecting one for me from Halfords, tomorrow: as the Punto is away having its exhaust and manicat replaced, as part of its 100,000-mile service.)
2. I did however discover that I can make the horn sound, even with the cover and the springs removed, simply by nudging the steering wheel with my knees.
3. I also discovered that, occasionally -- although not every time -- this manoeuvre will result in the ignition working.

Being a little hazy: I'm not sure what conclusions to reach re this -- apart from the fact that there seems to be a short, somewhere, in the steering wheel, ignition and column switches set-up....

If anyone has any bright ideas, please let me know... :worship:

...otherwise, once armed with a 24 mm socket, I shall just strip everything down (after disconnecting the battery), clean, and put back. :idea:

 

[varesecrazy]

glad you're up to that..

apart from checking the "multi-plugs" are made correctly , and ovious signs of wire chaping..
can't offer much assistance

on the horn front, I had a Tipo issue where by it was a tempramental bugger,
eventually discovered the steering wheels " slip ring" had a dead-spot
at 12 o 'clock position,
turning the wheel upside down sorted it..!!

charlie

 

[onemanmade]

Dosed up on the tail-end of some rather yummy anaesthetics, I decided to try and sort this out, an hour or so ago. :nono:

1. As I haven't got a 24 mm socket, I didn't get as far as removing the steering wheel. (Mrs homeward will kindly be collecting one for me from Halfords, tomorrow: as the Punto is away having its exhaust and manicat replaced, as part of its 100,000-mile service.)
2. I did however discover that I can make the horn sound, even with the cover and the springs removed, simply by nudging the steering wheel with my knees.
3. I also discovered that, occasionally -- although not every time -- this manoeuvre will result in the ignition working.

Being a little hazy: I'm not sure what conclusions to reach re this -- apart from the fact that there seems to be a short, somewhere, in the steering wheel, ignition and column switches set-up....

If anyone has any bright ideas, please let me know... :worship:

...otherwise, once armed with a 24 mm socket, I shall just strip everything down (after disconnecting the battery), clean, and put back. :idea:

aquamarine sent me a fantastic guide for changing the ignition barrel, I don't have it to hand but perhaps he could pm you with it if its not too much trouble?

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

...the actual ignition LOCK should be fine.. but there is a DISC under it that makes all the connections , check that + the wiring onto it...

The ign. switch is at the back of the lock and is only accessible by taking off the steering column cowl, and as Haynes said, you will need to remove the steering wheel to do that. Once the wheel is out of the way you can remove the cowl in conjunction with the column switches. The cowl itself is held on by a screw at the bottom as well as the one under the steering wheel, and the clamp for the switch assy. can be undone through the access hole next to that screw.

Okay. I now am officially confused.... :bang:

I've managed to undo everything -- without getting into too much of a befuddlement (although Pippin now looks like all the Pandas in various 'build' threads...) -- as outlined above.... :woot:





...I even managed to work out how to remove the ignition barrel... :slayer:



...but this was the only loose connection I could find (it's the only one that is easily removed -- and appears (as the only A/blue cable I could find on the wiring diagram in that vicinity) to be something to do with the indicators... -- but I'm not convinced: however, I've cleaned it, tightened it a little, and replaced it...) :chin:



...however, I still don't know where the ignition switch actually is; or how to get to it. There is a big, dark red connector block (just about visible in the top photo), connected to the steering column -- but I can't work out if it's removable; or if I'm heading in the right direction....

Help. Please.... Ahhhh

I've got until next weekend to sort this -- or Palio will never talk to me again.

The weather forecast is awful for the next couple of days (it is, after all, a Bank Holiday); I have a birthday to celebrate (aiming for the sympathy vote -- and why do you think there's a Bank Holiday, anyway...?!); I still feel awful from my op... -- and I don't think my brain is working. All bright ideas will therefore be accepted with great happiness and gratitude.... :worship:

PS: The Haynes says "The ignition switch may be detached from the rear of the lock after extracting the retaining screws." What screws...? I have a feeling I'm staring straight through them....

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

PS: The Haynes says "The ignition switch may be detached from the rear of the lock after extracting the retaining screws." What screws...? I have a feeling I'm staring straight through them....

All I can see are these two 'holes' on each side of the barrel...



If these are "retaining screws", they either need the smallest screwdriver/allen key in the world, or I need my eyes testing again (only done ten days ago....). The Haynes shows a pozidrive/Philips driver....

Off to have a cup of tea -- as Grandmaster VmanC would do...!

PS: The ignition connector block looks like it can be prized out: as there are two clips (one just visible below the MM logo, above...) -- but I don't think this is a wise move....

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

That'll be the little black button immediately below the barrel I believe, never knew what it was for, now I do :idea:

That's actually for the parking lights...! :idea:

Press it in, whilst the key's in the ignition, and turn the key the wrong way...! (Should be marked 'PARK' on the barrel.) Then take the key out.

To remove the barrel, though, you need to remove the steering cowl. You then press the spring visible in the photo in my last post....

 

[varesecrazy]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

That's actually for the parking lights...! :idea:

Press it in, whilst the key's in the ignition, and turn the key the wrong way...! (Should be marked 'PARK' on the barrel.) Then take the key out.

To remove the barrel, though, you need to remove the steering cowl. You then press the spring visible in the photo in my last post....

too many options..!!
homeward is talking a bout the little button ALONGSIDE the key hole = that lets the ignition barrel "reverse".

on SOME ignition barrel there is a BLACK button you press to release the actual Ignition barrel from it's "sleeve / housing".

looking at the pics,
I would
consider unclamping the bracket that holds the lock housing onto the steering column,
it MAY give access to the lower half of the ign. barrel,
AND give much better views of the rear end of the RED electrical plugs

I'll sit + study my 2 x different age Haynes panda manuals ( 1986 = 1992)

then look in the Porter for more ideas,

TTFN,
Charlie

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

too many options..!!

homeward is talking a bout the little button ALONGSIDE the key hole = that lets the ignition barrel "reverse".

on SOME ignition barrel there is a BLACK button you press to release the actual Ignition barrel from it's "sleeve / housing".

looking at the pics,
I would
consider unclamping the bracket that holds the lock housing onto the steering column,
it MAY give access to the lower half of the ign. barrel,
AND give much better views of the rear end of the RED electrical plugs

I'll sit + study my 2 x different age Haynes panda manuals ( 1986 = 1992)

then look in the Porter for more ideas,

TTFN,
Charlie

Can't unclamp it: as the bolts are those that lose their heads, after being tightened up....

Nothing I can see in the Porter, either.

Gonna take a break; and see if I can make sense of it later. Does look like those little holes (maybe a pin?) are key (IYSWIM).

 

[varesecrazy]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

Gonna take a break; and see if I can make sense of it later. Does look like those little holes (maybe a pin?) are key (IYSWIM).

as a non-swimmer.. I simpathise


what generation is YOUR haynes ?early BLUE cover.. or green ( later)..??

 

[varesecrazy]

I can conclusively confirm..

BOTH haynes manuals show MK1 panda switch, with the contacts / disc mounted on bottom of lock barrel :bang:

porter seems to show a different design to YOUR panda..,

with your car I would be inclined to remove the multiplugs on rear if lock barrel,
see what you can in there, ( awkward I know)

maybe douse with electrical cleaner,


Charlie

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

what generation is YOUR haynes ?early BLUE cover.. or green ( later)..??

I have both -- and they both show a pozi screwdriver undoing the "Ignition switch/lock fixing screw" -- which doesn't appear to be there on mine... :bang:

• picture 7.3A on p.149 of the blue one (1981 to 1991); and
• picture 7.3A on page 10•4 of the green one (1981 to 1995).

In the Haynes (both), it say that the wiring harness comes out with the lock cylinder. But it looks like, on mine, there is the red connector block instead....

I think my best bet, therefore, will be to try and pry out that ignition switch connector block. I really don't want to be drilling out shear-head bolts.

I shall wait until someone with the same set-up reports back, though -- as I don't want to make things worse....

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

with your car I would be inclined to remove the multiplugs on rear if lock barrel,
see what you can in there, ( awkward I know)

I think my best bet, therefore, will be to try and pry out that ignition switch connector block. I really don't want to be drilling out shear-head bolts.

I think we've just come to the same conclusion.

Thanks for your help, Charlie...! :worship:

PS: Can't get the connector block on the back of the barrel to move -- even with both clips depressed. It looks like the red multiplug is moulded into a black 'body': which is what the clips look like they're part of. But it looks like it's going to be impossible to remove unless those shear-headed bolts are taken out, and the whole assembly unclamped... -- which I'm just not willing to do. Will just douse in contact cleaner, reassemble everything, and cross my fingers.... Later. P*ss*d off beyond belief, at the moment....

 

[homeward]

Re: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to pippin?!!

Looks like you have to replace the whole assembly.... At least Ricambio have a couple in stock, if I get that far....

There's also one here: that shows the multiplug a little better.... Also used on the Integrale...!



Anyone fancy drilling two shear-head bolts out...?

PS: Mustn't forget that we don't even know if it's the ignition switch at fault.... :nono:

 

[panda1408]

Can you get a mutlimeter onto the terminals in the red plug? You should be able to test the igntion switch like that. Quickly looking at the haynes wiring diagrams there should be one thicker red wire which is the permanent feed and the rest will be switched. Check you have that and then you can work out if the switched outputs are working as they should.

 

[homeward]

Can you get a mutlimeter onto the terminals in the red plug? You should be able to test the igntion switch like that. Quickly looking at the haynes wiring diagrams there should be one thicker red wire which is the permanent feed and the rest will be switched. Check you have that and then you can work out if the switched outputs are working as they should.

Brilliant idea, young sir! :worship:

A continuity test showed that everything was switching fine: so I reconnected the battery -- and, of course, now can't replicate the fault! :bang:

That thicker red cable is the key, of course... -- but I reckon, by plugging and unplugging everything, I've either cleaned whatever wasn't making proper contact, or wiggled a wire that was loose. Not yet convinced that it's internal to the ignition switch: but only time will tell....

At least I now know how to strip the steering wheel and switches, and remove the ignition barrel. But can I put it all back together...?

 

[panda1408]

You will find it will work perfectly until it is all back together again Always the case with this sort of thing. Ideally you need to replicate the fault again and then re test the igntion switch and if you have a feed on the red wire.

 

[homeward]

You will find it will work perfectly until it is all back together again Always the case with this sort of thing. Ideally you need to replicate the fault again and then re test the igntion switch and if you have a feed on the red wire.

It will nae replicate, cap'n! :bang:

Oh, the joy of intermittency!