Panda (Classic) Getting a Panda and Preparing it for a LONG drive...

[Phiz]

Thanks Vernon, I remember seeing that when I first spoke to you about you Fizz, quite happy fabricating the cone section for both sides and it will give me an opportunity to clean up the brake lines and generally check the condition of the rear brakes while I'm there. What thickness steel did you use on those cups?


Also any recommendation on where to get parts like the rubber bushes/bump stops etc. would be great.


Think on the Fabrication side of things trying to match the compound curve on the front of the inner wheel arch is looking like the biggest challenge, any one got any tips on forming that?


I think getting the swages in the boot floor to match might be interesting but that's all part of the fun! Sadly fun delayed a little further by the pesky motorbike disgracing itself again, seized bolt in the engine block that even snapped off after I welded a nut to it, thought that amount of heat would have shifted it!

 

[VmanC]

Thanks Vernon, I remember seeing that when I first spoke to you about you Fizz, quite happy fabricating the cone section for both sides and it will give me an opportunity to clean up the brake lines and generally check the condition of the rear brakes while I'm there. What thickness steel did you use on those cups?

'Twas a few years ago now but I think it was 2mm sheet and 2mm walled tubing.

 

[Phiz]

So, as is often the case with these projects I was all set to go and then life/personal stuff went and got in the way a bit, followed by some major work required on my bike which took priority but is now sorted... so yesterday, just in time for 'Storm Barbara' I finally got under my Panda and got the rear axle off and into the workshop.

The spring cup on one side had gone completely and was pretty well a pile of dust, on the other side it was still in situ but one side had completely rusted away. Think I'll leave that side there until the other one is in position so I can match the angle, then shift it and get that one sorted too! Typically the top hat part is around 70mm across and I've no tube in the workshop which is even close to that and my local steel stockist has, not suprisingly at this point, shut for Christmas! I'm deciding if I should hold out until the new year and then get some suitable tube in or make a cross shaped dome piece out of 25x5mm flat bar, which I have seen holding the springs in place on a few 4x4's? Any thoughts on that would be apperciated. On the other hand, plenty to be done in the meantime anyway...

Once the axle was off I got a proper look at the brake lines, which are a little corroded in places. On the one hand I think with a bit of a clean up and some paint they would probably get through an MOT but it seems silly not to replace them while the axle is off, I might look into the price for the pipes but I think a more durable option would be to make up my own pipes with Kunifer copper/nickel lines?? All of the unions seem well and truly seized, and the bleed nipples look like they have become perminently attached. Other than penetrating oil and heat any ideas for shifting them would be more than welcome!

Brakes generally look pretty good, obviously new shoes while I'm in there and a lick of paint etc. but hopefully once new lines and bleed nipples are fitted they'll be as good as new. All the rubber bushes seem in pretty good nick, the actual struts are rusty but otherwise seem to function well, given the condition of the rubber bushes either end I'm not sure they are as old as they look!

So weld up the spring cups, remove and replace the brake lines, ideally strip the axle down to repaint and then reinstall, oh yeah with a new brake cable too!

Seems pretty solid under there, the straps for the petrol tank seems to be made entirely of rust as predicted by Dragonman but otherwise seems pretty solid under there (other than the rust in the rear wheel arch I already knew about).

Sorry no photo's at this point but as it was Christmas I left my Camera at home (if I left it at work I'd be in real trouble!).

Hopefully more updates soon along with photo's as if not the snow will have melted in Finland and I'll still be covered in oil and rust!


Welcome any thoughts or advice.

Phiz

 

[panda panda]

Glad you've finally got around to the Black CLX!

Did your mate find one to go on the trip too?

Those rear axles are still available from parts world for £100 you know!

Funny how things work out, my "parts car" has superseded the car it was meant to give a long life to...

Best of luck with the project.

 

[Phiz]

Yeah if the cost of repairing the original axle was getting close to the cost of the new one then it would be silly not to just buy a new axle but I'd much rather repair than replace where possible and it's not that much work, just a pain I can't get the right diameter tube too easily, think I've got an idea for a strong alternative which should hold the springs in place nicely though. Just need to get some time in the workshop and get it made up, then drive down some rough Russians roads to test the theory
Clearly it's been travelling around with spring cups made of rust for some time so can't see it being that much of an issue!

What does your fleet consist of now then John? Have you still got the Maestro too?

We're going it alone on this Russia trip, more due to my friends not being able to get time off work than the availability of a suitable car. Jennys brother might fly out to join us for around a week of the trip (pretty well missing out all the countries he has already travelled through!) which would test the carrying capacity of the car a little. Talking of which, if the opportunity arose I wonder if a small 2-stroke motorcycle would fit in the back, there seem to be a few Minsks readily available in Poland...

 

[panda panda]

A couple of people who live further down the street complained about the amount of cars and the council has got involved so I'm having to reduce the fleet. I swapped the Maestro for a Fiat Regatta, then sold that on. Another panda was bought and sold, the parts car is still being dismantled, the Uno is going to live out its life in France. The white CLX has gone, the mk1 is for sale, all a bit depressing really.
I'm hoping to be left with enough cars for the collection to still be diverse and interesting in a Panda biased sort of way!

Personally I'd change the dampers all around (they're pretty cheap) and any bushes (especially the trailing arms) as this will make the most difference to the ride quality and minimise bangs and rattles. I don't think you'll have any problems 3up, but not maybe with a bike inside too though!

I was only thinking the other day how well blackie pulled compared to other pandas I've had, some really are just better than others despite appearances!

 

[Phiz]

Ah really sorry to hear you're having an enforced reduction in your fleet, I'm surprised they can say much about it really apart from any on the road itself, how many are you going to keep? Got to say the Mk1 would be the last one I'd sell (if I were a wealthier man and had better storage I'd be trying to buy it!).

I am creating a bit of a shopping list for components I need to replace and then on to components I might as well replace while I'm there (ie springs, dampers & bushes etc.). Any tips on best places to buy all the bits I need welcome, I've seen mention on here of Big Mick at Eurocarcare Derby as a good option?

Don't worry if I were to get a bike then that would be after Duncan has flown home so it'd be 2 people to start, then three for a while and then as a remote possibility (just an idea which is likely to be vetoed) 2 and a bike. Just missed a chance to get a Minsk this year, they're getting rare over here and at the moment it is pretty easy to import from within the EU... might not be the case next time I get chance!

Cheers

Phiz

 

[davidjones007]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and to be honest pretty well new to forums in general so apologies if this ends up in totally the wrong place etc.



I'm planning a round trip next year from Manchester to Saint Petersburg next year (spring 2017) and my current choice of very sensible estate (far too easy) and motorbike (can't share the driving with my other half) has lead me to a very interesting search. I've been looking at a variety of cool retro cars which have the right balance of simplicity, quirkiness and reliability and I keep coming back to Fiat Panda's. I've had a bit of a hankering for one for years after working on a Seat Marbella many years back, which other than the massive amounts of rust was a brilliant little car. Clearly the simplicity, relative reliability and comfort and hopefully availability of parts in Europe should make it a winner? I've been doing as much research online as possible and kept finding myself on this forum so figured I'd be best joining up! I've a lot of questions unanswered, thought I'd find some expert brains to pick and then all going well will be able to contribute with a long thread re preparing the car and then hopefully reporting back after the trip (all going to plan).



I guess the first thing to tackle is finding a suitable car, I was hoping to have a viewing on a car in Derbyshire (advertised on here) today but I wanted to check I could get a reasonable insurance quote (more on that later) before wasting the sellers time and I've just heard back that it is already sold! There is a 750 FIRE engined Panda up in Glasgow but I am not sure if the 750 might leave us a little vulnerable on the inevitable autobahn sections of the trip early on? Any hints and tips on what to check for would be great, or even any tips on where a suitable panda might be found?



Who I Am So I'm a Welder/Blacksmith (as is my other half Jenny) based in Manchester. I've not done much in the way of automotive welding but am a Tig welder with a decent amount of experience, fabricating repair sections could present some new challenges but I'm not too intimidated by moderate rust. We've got enough space to store and work on the car at our workshop and a decent (and growing) collection of tools. I did drive a Vanden Plas Allegro across Europe in 2009 (as far as Italy where the clutch died and it was towed home!), I realise that the Panda is not the most conventional choice for cross continent travel but that is one of the reasons I'm after one! We are likely to be in convoy with friends in a more modern vehicle so in theory if we brake down in Russia a tow will be available (maybe not all the way back, though would save on fuel ).



What I'm Looking For So we've got a little over a year before the trip, ideally I'd like to get a Panda with MOT (so I can get it back to the workshop) which I can drive a few thousand miles in this year so I can work out what needs sorting etc. I'd love to hear your views on the different models and any advice on what I shoulf be looking out for, sort of a buyers guide. I was initially looking at the 750 for £300, the 1000 was £650ono, ideally I'd rather buy cheap and do the work myself, get to know the car and it'd be more of a challenge, though the 1000cc had clearly had more than the extra £350 spent on it (tyres elec. ignition etc.) so did seem like it was worth the extra stretch. Also it'd be seriously cool to drive the 5000ish mile round trip in a car bought for a couple of hundred!



Insurance I rang a couple of companies this weekend expecting a quote in the region of £100, given the car I was looking at was a 25 year old classic, incredibly light, not very fast and realistically of very low value. I rang two companies (who were open on the weekend) and was pretty shocked by the quotes I got £400 and £800 plus. Any tips on which companies give decent quotes for these, I think on the last trip I was with Adrian Flux and fully comp. the allegro was less than £200.



Preparation Mainly I'm looking for any common improvements in reliability and possibly comfort. What spares should we take, what service parts should I change etc. Also the Marbella had the Hammock seats, which I think were only fitted to pre 86 Pandas, I think really we'd be better off with a FIRE engine and I assume the early Panda's are also more pricey, can the Hammock seats be fitted to the later models or are there changes in the bodywork which would make them incompatible.



Experience Anyone on here driven their Panda long haul? Or anyone have experience of driving any car to Russia, with any route recommendations etc.



Cheers in advance for any help and advice, apologies for the rambling post (possibly the longest introductory post on record??)





Phiz

Currently doing 3,000 miles a week in my panda give or take. 05 plate, from Liverpool to Leeds then Leeds to liverpool every day.. she's held up well so far no major problems, checking all the obvious things every week. Only thing I've noticed is it isn't the comfiest car for long haul. Had my fathers focus estate diesel for the week (51 plate) and it was miles more comfortable for the long week haul... but also much more to insure! I'm with Hastings in liverpool, only a stonethrow from you in Manchester. 4 years no claims £1200 for insurance [emoji30][emoji30][emoji30]

 

[Phiz]

That's one hard working little Panda! Though £1200 per year is still pretty high (I guess in part due to your epic mileage!), I've got a 170bhp volvo as my daily driver and even with business miles it comes in at around £600 per year to insure! I was hoping to get my little Mk2 Panda on a classic policy but I can't find an insurer who'll do it (it will be stored off the road and very much a second car), I think the issue in part is it's a 93 car, so not quite 25 years old which is the cut off for some insurers. A bit harsh, with motorcycle insurance anything 10 years plus can be considered classic (one extreme to the other there).
Comfort wise, clearly I'm not expecting volvoesque comfort, though the Panda is a more comfortable compromise to a motorcycle, which would be the other preferred choice for a road trip like this!
At the moment I'm thinking I might just have to accept an insane insurance quote but take out the insurance a month before the trip, spend a month driving it checking for issues then cancel the insurance when we get back, effectively only having it on the road for 2 months :-(. Then maybe do the same again for future trips (if we decide to keep it rather than buying and fixing up another car), with it hopefully becoming eligable for classic insurance in the next couple of years.

Quick question for those in the know, the brake pipes seem to be about 5mm diameter, I assume this is just the 3/16" (4mm) pipes with the plastic coating and rust making up the extra mm??

Cheers


Phiz

 

[panda panda]

Try Peter James for insurance, all my "classics" are with them and don't seem to bother with the 25 year thing.
Fleet reduction is still in negotiation, I'm hoping to be able to keep six cars, as that's the least I could live with!
I put a sheepskin rug on the panda seat when I went to Italy, just made the seat that bit more comfortable.
I'd be tempted to change all the plastic covered brake pipes as they can rot from the inside out, also the flexi pipes are worth doing too. panda1408 used motor factor parts usually? on my rebuilds I think.

 

[Phiz]

I'll certainly give them a try, I can't remember which companies I rang back in March but had quite a shock, either way, not quite at that stage yet sadly!
I'd hope you could keep at least 6, it sounds like (having seen posts on here) they are working on some very vague phrasing in the planning laws which are open to wildly different interpretations, probably hoping that they'll just walk over you without a fight, I think they are really pushing it.
As soon as I took the axle off I saw the brake pipes and my assesment was pretty much, it'd probably pass the next MOT but it would be silly not to sort it while I am there, flexi-pipe was a given too. I've managed to get all the pipes free (daily dose of penetrating fluid and we're all good) so just need to work out the correct pipe to use, what sort of flair they have and then get in the apropriate materials. I'm waiting to hear back from eurocarcare as clearly everywhere has been shut pretty much since I got time to look at this! I'm going to get prices on a variety of bits, then see where I should go from there.
As we're back in work from tomorrow and have some catching up to do I think I'll get half a day next week to work out what I'm doing with the spring cups, then hopefully get to work on the rear brakes and finally get some parts ordered in.
Looking at the general weather forecasts for Helsinki we'd like to be setting off in March (accepting that it'll be damn cold and camping will be off until we are on our way back from Russia). Clearly I need to pull my finger out at this point as once I've got it MOT'd I've got a list of other reliability jobs to do before I even get a look at any improvements in terms of road-trip capabilities!

 

[Phiz]

Alright folks, so I finally actually started work. To celebrate I've started a new thread in general (as at this point I'd guess I'm no longer that new). Please can you check it out and offer any advice/point out my errors along the way

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/446374-work-begins-finally-94-panda-clx.html