Panda (Classic) Getting a Panda and Preparing it for a LONG drive...

[Phiz]

Thanks for the heads up Kolza, PM sent, fingers crossed.

There are a couple of 4x4's on ebay at the minute but they've both been off the road for over a decade and look like more rust than car... Having just read through most of the 'Project Fallout' thread I'm wary of a project that might drag on for three years and cost a crippling amount of money!

Italy too eh Jodevizes, yeah most of my trips to the continent would have been frowned upon by the various law enforcement agencies! I'm sure I read somewhere (possibly land rover based) that in one of the Scandinavian countries any modifications have to be declared and pass their equivalent of an SVA, no matter how slight, though doubt they would be on the lookout for slight upgrades on a 20 plus year old fiat panda!

 

[jodevizes]

Yes, I found out when I went to a tyre place to get a puncture repair. Luckily he was a friend of a friend and looked the other way. I don't think the Italian police bother too much, I was stopped near the Coliseum as the GB plate was covered in dirt (Ah those country lanes). They never checked the tyres.

 

[kolza]

car for you, but have 16v convertion planned and bring a trailer with you...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fiat-panda-4x4-full-mot-clean-for-year-with-spares-finished-project/152013772256?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143856%26meid%3D555db15fc17847bfbfdcf123565bb0a0%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D141866172914

 

[Phiz]

Did see this one when it was initially listed Kolza, is it yours? I've been watching it but I assumed (seemingly rightly) that as a 4x4 it was going to go over my budget. Now it's a non runner might keep the price down a little, and I guess with it's MOT we could tow it back (though quite a long trip over). Think for my budget I'll be looking at 2 wheel drive only, any 4x4 I can afford will need an immense amount of work doing to it, though maybe one day...

 

[Didge3]

Did see this one when it was initially listed Kolza, is it yours? I've been watching it but I assumed (seemingly rightly) that as a 4x4 it was going to go over my budget. Now it's a non runner might keep the price down a little, and I guess with it's MOT we could tow it back (though quite a long trip over). Think for my budget I'll be looking at 2 wheel drive only, any 4x4 I can afford will need an immense amount of work doing to it, though maybe one day...

4wd do demand more than a 2wd but unless you plan on doing any off-roading I'd suggest you get a 2wd anyway, I haven't had a 4x4 so I'm not sure but at a guess I assume the gearing is slightly lower and your 1st gear is a ultra low gear so effectively a 'low range'. If you get either one of the special edition 2wd that came with a 5spd or a 2wd newer than around '91-'92 they should be 5spd which will make for better motorway cruising.

 

[VmanC]

4wd do demand more than a 2wd but unless you plan on doing any off-roading I'd suggest you get a 2wd anyway, I haven't had a 4x4 so I'm not sure but at a guess I assume the gearing is slightly lower and your 1st gear is a ultra low gear so effectively a 'low range'. If you get either one of the special edition 2wd that came with a 5spd or a 2wd newer than around '91-'92 they should be 5spd which will make for better motorway cruising.

I think the 4 and 5 speed have the same top gear ratio?

 

[Didge3]

I think the 4 and 5 speed have the same top gear ratio?

I have no idea, I would've just assumed the 5spd has the same 4th gear as the 4spd and the 5th is an overdrive essentially?

 

[Freebo]

Personally I'd recommend a 2wd for Tarmac driving. Going from my 4x4 to my 2wd it feels so much nicer at higher speeds and sitting at 70 on the motorway etc.

 

[Phiz]

Hi,


Didge3, for the planned trip 4 wheel drive isn't (I hope) going to be required, though we are planning on covering a lot of ground and hopefully experiencing some interesting cultural changes I'd not expect we would need to deal with anything much worse than poorly maintained tarmac. That being said I would love a 4x4 panda anyway but yeah, I'll leave that for another time!


Vernon you predicted my next question which was going to be about what ratio top is in the 4 v's 5 speed box. Our schedule for the trip isn't that tight so I'd like to think we would be driving fairly gently so if the ratio in top is the same 4 speed should not be a problem.


Anyone recommend anywhere online to read up on the model variations and what is included in the spec?

Thanks




Phiz

 

[VmanC]

Just checked my Haynes manual and Didge is right in that the fifth gear is a lower ratio and 4th is the same in both 4 & 5 speed gearboxes, but the four speed gearbox on the fire engine has a lower gearing on the diff too making it the same overall as the five speed (999cc engine only).

 

[Phiz]

Ok so 4 speed box all good with the FIRE engine but not ideal on the 903cc Panda's. Thanks for the info, certainly don't think I'd have worked that out for myself, or even that it was a factor, I sort of assumed the 4 speed would have slightly longer gearing to get similar cruising speeds in top.

 

[Dragon Man]

you could always add the 5th gear from a 4x4 box to get a better cruising speed.. you can get it from another box too but i cant remember which one.. think it was an uno..

 

[kolza]

There is not that much difference in terms of equipment/options.
The main one to consider one as listed above already.

1. 2wd vs. 4wd,
2. push rod engine vs. Fire engine,
3. carburettor - pre 1992 vs. injection - post 1992 as the catalytic converters were fitted,
4. Brake servo'd vs non servo,
5. Ignition breaker points vs. electronic ignition ( can be retrofited)
6. hammock seats vs. non hammock,
7. no sunroof vs. glass sunroof vs. twin fabric roof.


Dash clock, internally adjusted mirrors, rubber floor liner, ashtray, radio, radio pod, speaker pods, door pockets, side trims, boot lid wiper, coolant temp gauge, roof rails and few others are minor as you can live without.

Bare in mind that back in `90 Fiat did not stopped production line if they run out of i.e adjustable mirrors, they were fitting what was available so small variations between options are possible.

For full list of extras ( up to 1992) please go to page 12 ( in Italian), pdf attached.


I would recommend 2wd for purpose of this trip, you can look for 4wd when you're back.
25-30 mm suspension lift would be recommended for Russian country roads and as you will be caring all the camping gear uprated rear shocks or assistor springs should be considered for rear suspension.

 

[Phiz]

Thanks for the info, did not think I'd need to brush up on my Italian for this trip!
Were Servo assisted brakes also brought in around 92?
I think realistically I'm not going to get an early hammock seat model on my budget so unless a later ltd edition model with them comes up that's just wishful thinking. Does the fuel injection dramatically improve efficiency or anything? Generally I'd sway towards a carb, in part because I have a better idea of the workings of it but also because the sensors involved in fuel injection just means more things to go wrong which are difficult to find. How do people generally find them in terms of running and reliability carb v's injection?


Will definitely be looking at suspension upgrades/improvements, though if we are driving in convoy with friends in a massive pick up truck we might not have to load the panda up too full.


Dragon man, we'll do some long UK runs before hand to sus out what needs doing but hopefully we wont feel the need to be opening up the gearbox.


Cheers


Phiz

 

[Dragon Man]

Dragon man, we'll do some long UK runs before hand to sus out what needs doing but hopefully we wont feel the need to be opening up the gearbox.

dont worry about splitting the gear box. fiat put a handy little end cap on the gearbox making 5th the most easy gear to change! no box removal. you do not even have to drain the oil! :slayer:

stick with the carb.. the panda 999cc engine is damn good when it comes to fuel. (from derby i went all the way to the middle of Scotland on one tank... in a panda 4x4!
you would have less spares to carry. a complete spare carb, and a complete spare ignition system. (i actually carried these around with me under the engine bay sound proofing when Talon my green 4x4 was on the road!)

dont fret about not finding parts however if you do end up with an injection panda. as i say, it shares everything with the 1.1 fire engine found in Cinquecentos and Puntos. which are pretty common in Poland

its very rare you would ever get an issue with the ECU its self, and the engine loom is pretty good when it comes to being waterproof (good water proof plugs).
just a handful of small sensors would be all you need to carry.
a crank position sensor, a manifold absolute pressure sensor, a temperature sensor, a lambda (exhaust gas) sensor, a spare coil pack or 2, maybe a complete throttle body (for ease), and i would also take a spare fuel pump.. just because.
as they say, you would be ready for bear then.

i cant comment on the efficiency of the injected 999cc engine as i have never had one. hmm..
panda panda, just how rusty is fizzle?

 

[panda panda]

Dragon Man

Didn't aren't there some pictures of the rot?

well the offside sill has been removed and most of the inner sill is a bit crumbly. The interior passenger and driver floor are rusted where they should meet the sills.

Most of the interior has gone into other projects, though the engine and everything else is still there.

He will start and move every time, noisy though as the exhaust has separated.

If you want a project John, you are more than welcome to him, I'd want to keep the seats though for sentimental reasons though you could have the set of black stripe 4x4 ones I have spare.

Come over and have a look this weekend if you like!

 

[Dragon Man]

i was just wondering of a project for Phiz. i know Fizzle has always been a good starting and running car.

some long L shape metal along the inside floor pan and sill welded in, then maybe some rebuild on the rear part.. then just weld on the outer sill. would that be all it would need?

as far as internal bits go, i bet i have some stuff you could use. i know i have a complete (everything) green interior from out of a Sergo Tackini (like the one in firstcar-Y10 's >Grumbleweed<) in really good condition. (i just cant see me using it sadly)
the only way i think i would use the green interior is if i had a panda the same colour as grumbleweed as i think it really goes together well.
if green is not your thing, i bet theres some one else on here who you could get some seats from.

other trim bits i am sure i have..

does it sound like to big of a job?

 

[Phiz]

In theory not too big a job Dragon Man, assuming I can get all the bits without too much trouble (having read your thread on Project Fallout I know that even on a Panda things can run on and I have a schedule to stick to). The main thing putting me off the bigger projects like Panda Panda's Fizzle is that by the time I've paid to have it brought home it will have cost me the same as a Panda in better condition that's roadworthy that I can just drive home. Would be more of a challenge/adventure in a way taking on more of a project and more satisfying once the work is completed but I've got to be realistic about how much time I have to work on the car and indeed how much it's going to cost compared to starting with a slightly more solid car. Resurrecting a car otherwise destined to be a parts car would be great though!


I have now gone from not being able to find anything suitable to having three (four if 'Fizzle' were a workable proposition) potential cars I'm gathering more info on. All found through this forum, which has already been a great help and I'm not even covered in oil trying to work out where the random bit I've got left over came from!
I'll keep you posted as I work through options. I know what I'm after in terms of 5 speed gearbox, 903/999cc engine, carb, electronic ignition, hammock seats but won't get them all so have to work out priorities on this.

 

[rendo]

I think i need to talk up the 750s here, by the sounds of it here the 1000cc is that much of a step up in performance. My 750 can comfortably sit on the motorway at 70 (acc to the speedo) it does tend to slow on an incline but will always manage 60mph.

Phiz, i believe it was also my 750L that was mentioned in the OP. It will be going into storage at the end of this week, as i am away on a euro trip (by bike). i will be looking to have it MOT'd when i return in about 4weeks time.

 

[Phiz]

Hi Rendo, are you up in Glasgow? I had pic's emailed across of the car and my sisters other half Charlie was going to go across from Edinburgh to check it out for me!
Anywhere interesting on the bike? We're probably riding around Scotland again this year, though considering Ireland.
If it wasn't for the trip I'd quite fancy a 750, after all to me the appeal of the Panda is it's simplicity and compactness so in that respect the 750 is the purest of the breed in my eyes.
HOWEVER would you feel comfortable on an overnight drive on an autobahn in one? If we had more time to do the trip and could stick to smaller roads then a 750 would be great, I just think to do the trip in 3 weeks we are pretty well going to have to skip over western Europe pretty well non stop. I've convinced my other half that buying a Panda to do the trip in is a good idea but I think the 750 might be a step too far...