Technical Gear box oil all over drive on fitting new shock absorbers

[AndyB2005]

Hello folks,

2005 Ducato based camper van, 2.3 TD engine and 5 speed manual box.

As per the title, I changed the front right hand shocker no problems, but on doing the LHS, I've pulled the drive shaft partially out of the gearbox, dumping a couple of litres of oil on the drive.

Does the shaft just push back into place? Will I have buggered anything which I need to sort before putting it all back together?

Oh, and a heads up on the grade of oil, and where to find the filler (I haven't looked yet - it may be obvious...) would be useful.

Many thanks,

Andy

 

[bugsymike]

Hello folks,

2005 Ducato based camper van, 2.3 TD engine and 5 speed manual box.

As per the title, I changed the front right hand shocker no problems, but on doing the LHS, I've pulled the drive shaft partially out of the gearbox, dumping a couple of litres of oil on the drive.

Does the shaft just push back into place? Will I have buggered anything which I need to sort before putting it all back together?

Oh, and a heads up on the grade of oil, and where to find the filler (I haven't looked yet - it may be obvious...) would be useful.

Many thanks,

Andy

If you carefully re insert the drive shaft it should be OK , but be careful not to damage the lips of the oil seal.
Other Forum members can give specific filler details as some years since I worked on that model.

 

[AndyB2005]

If you carefully re insert the drive shaft it should be OK , but be careful not to damage the lips of the oil seal.
Other Forum members can give specific filler details as some years since I worked on that model.

Thank you - I've got it back together, just keeping fingers crossed that the oil seal is ok.
I think I've found the filler buried under the pipe from the air filter to the turbo. In a way, I'm quite glad this has happened, as I drained the rest of the oil from the gear box, and it looked black, as though it hasn't been changed for years.

 

[Communicator]

You have found the filler? I did not think that there was one. Others have reportd using the breather hole, with pipe and funnel. An alternative is the speedometer sensor hole, but you can loose the gear when replacing...........................

Oil 2.7 litres SAE 75W/80 GL4.

In my limited experience gearbox oil should not be black. Perhaps @bugsymike can bring some of his experience to this.

 

[LandyAndy]

The drive shafts do pop out very easily on these. So I found out, in a similar scenario to you. The annoying thing for me is that I had fairly recently done a Gbox oil change. So wasted good oil. And it should not be black.

 

[bugsymike]

You have found the filler? I did not think that there was one. Others have reportd using the breather hole, with pipe and funnel. An alternative is the speedometer sensor hole, but you can loose the gear when replacing...........................

Oil 2.7 litres SAE 75W/80 GL4.

In my limited experience gearbox oil should not be black. Perhaps @bugsymike can bring some of his experience to this.

I agree re oil colour, generally golden syrup rather than black and hopefully no "flecks" of metal particles
Maybe someone put an oil additive in the gear oil in the past which affected the colour, either way it is out now.
I don't expect it is too critical but I see on that AutoData page it specifies 75x80 Synthetic GL5 .
Though I know on the Iveco 6 speed boxes there was a later oil that was meant to help with stiff gear changes from cold though I didn't notice any great improvement on mine when I tried it.

 

[Communicator]

The higher level of additives (phosphorus/sulphur based) in GL5 , while good for hypoid diffs, is reputed to attack the bronze parts (synchros) in gearboxes.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Could be someone added an additive in the past?

 

[bugsymike]

The higher level of additives (phosphorus/sulphur based) in GL5 , while good for hypoid diffs, is reputed to attack the bronze parts (synchros) in gearboxes.

I was unaware of that, the Autodata is a 2012 edition so maybe they have updated their advice.
I read this on net.
Is it safe to use GL5 instead of gl4?


To conclude: GL-4 is suitable for hypoid gear service when they are under severe service but are without shock loading. GL-5 is suitable for hypoid gear service under severe service and shock loads and not for use in a gearbox.9 Sept 2020

 

[chris3234]

Could be someone added an additive in the past?

More then likely bits of rubber from the seals and years of heat cycle's

Seems common for old gearbox' oil to go rather black

 

[AndyB2005]

Thank you for all the input - I've been away for a couple of days, but I'm now in the process of re-filling the oil. In the process, I've discovered that 2 of the three rubber mounts the air filter housing sits on are buggered, and so they are getting replaced. I'm guessing there is no way of measuring the oil level - I just need to put 2.7 L in via the plastic breather?

Cheers, Andy

 

[Communicator]

A few months back on another thread I said:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I hope that you manage to remove the air filter housing without difficulty. Please note that the air filter housing is fixed to its mounting bracket via anti vibration rubber mounts. On my vehicle, the nuts for the mountings were slightly rusted, and I found it better to remove the housing complete with bracket.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've discovered that 2 of the three rubber mounts the air filter housing sits on are buggered, and so they are getting replaced. I'm guessing there is no way of measuring the oil level - I just need to put 2.7 L in via the plastic breather?

Cheers, Andy

Seems that the antivibration mountings for the air filter are a common problem. After manouvering the bracket and filter, I was able to use an open ended spanner to hold the mountings. With the mountings removed, I cleaned up and greased the threads. Finishing touch was 3 off A2 stainless plain washer faced nuts, but I had to file the locking end off nyloc nuts to make them.

Yes no level plug, so you have to work blind. There has been considerable discussion regarding the correct volume, on this and other forums.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I was unaware of that, the Autodata is a 2012 edition so maybe they have updated their advice.
I read this on net.
Is it safe to use GL5 instead of gl4?


To conclude: GL-4 is suitable for hypoid gear service when they are under severe service but are without shock loading. GL-5 is suitable for hypoid gear service under severe service and shock loads and not for use in a gearbox.9 Sept 2020

A very complicated subject with lots of opinions floating about. Being interested in older cars I got very interested some time ago and to sum up very briefly and broadly:- The older GL5 formulations definitely used ingredients - phosphorous with active sulphur I understand - which were likely to cause damage to yellow "soft" metals - so synchros, bushes and some selector forks. There was such a stink about this that many manufacturers started using modified formulas which could be used in these transmissions, they were often labeled GL4/GL5 compatible. I'm not sure but I suspect the GL4+ rating of Tutela Technyx from S4p (which I use in the Panda and Punto) may be one of these. Interestingly, perhaps, API don't actually list GL4+ How weird is that?

Anyway it would seem that most modern GL5 spec oils will not damage yellow metals. I'm too much of a sceptic to go with this and I also worry I may be given "old stock" or one of the formulations which are still "active" so I now always buy only the actual oil recommended by the manufacturer. Some modern transmission oils are so specific as to be almost gearbox specific I suspect the stuff, 75W viscosity, for my Ibiza may be one of those. It's about as viscous as water! If I couldn't get the manufacturer's recommended oil I'd tend to put a GL4 into a gearbox, but I would be very unhappy about using something not recommended and would probably be changing it as soon as I cou;ld get my hands on the exact stuff.

If you would like to read more then this is interesting but you'll be a while so make a cup of coffee or crack open a beer before wading in!

https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

 

[Communicator]

Another thing to remember about the 5 speed box, is that 5th gear relies on splash lubrication. The advice that I have read, follow and repeat, is that if the vehicle has not been used recently, avoid using 5th gear for the first mile or two.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I don't know this box, and I've no doubt that's good advice, certainly couldn't do any harm? however, aren't most gearboxes "splash lubricated"? Maybe in this case it "hides" in a restricted corner of the box though so maybe it takes a wee bit of running for the oil to reach an associated bushing? Don't mean any offence Communicator, just interested in your advice.

 

[Communicator]

I have yet to even partly dismantle a MGLU gearbox, so I must rely on what I have read.

The fifth gear is an add on and housed in a separate compartment at the end of the box. See "A" in attached outline drawing.

It is my understanding that oil splashes are collected in the main compartment by a trough that discharges into the 5th gear compartment, and the oil can drain back into main compartment.

The relatively high failure rate of 5th gears on motorhomes has been ascribed to this lack of immediate lubrication. Hence my cautionary note.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

That's very interesting and I can understand exactly what you are describing - although I'm too stupid on my computer to be able to open your attached diagram! It sounds much like the way that the top crankshaft bearing is lubricated on some small rotary blade lawnmower engines. A wee cup, part of the crankcase casting, collects oil thrown up by the crankshaft which then dribbles down through a driller hole to the plain bearing in which the crankshaft runs. No oil pump on these small engines.