Technical gear and clutch problem

Currently reading:
Technical gear and clutch problem

Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
114
Points
100
Location
Lancashire
Hello
can anyone offer any advice
Our 2015 Panda Cross 4x4 has a problem when changing gears
THe gears crash and grind when changing down from speed which suggests a clutch problem
any views ?
also if a new clutch is indeed required any idea on castings and do I have to use Main Dealers ?

thanks
phil
 
Hello
can anyone offer any advice
Our 2015 Panda Cross 4x4 has a problem when changing gears
THe gears crash and grind when changing down from speed which suggests a clutch problem
any views ?
also if a new clutch is indeed required any idea on castings and do I have to use Main Dealers ?

thanks
phil
If the gears engage quietly from a standstill and as you change up through the gearbox, I would say it doesn't indicate a clutch issue in my opinion.
You mention gears crash and grind when changing down from speed, do you mean if you change down slower it doesn't crash and grind so badly, if so this would indicate worn synchromesh hubs etc. in the gear box especially if more in one gear than another, which would involve a gearbox overhaul, at which time a good thing to change the clutch assembly.
However the first thing I would do is check the oil level in the gearbox as if low that can give the same symptoms, if low then oil loss would need sorting also.
 
just had a new clutch fitted
the problem is still there and the gearchange very notchy
the mechanic says the car has a solid flywheel and not a dmf
its the first time using this garage
i usually can do most mechanics but decided this was too much
what work is needed to replace a clutch because when i look i cannot see any obvious signs of work ie bolts etc having been removed and I am beginning to wonder if the clutch was indeed replaced

Thanks
 
I always ask for the parts from the car to be left in the boot for picking up with the car, apart from oil and filters.

Did they bleed the clutch master and slave when they changed the clutch.
 
You didn't answer the queries I posed regarding your initial issue, if you had I could better advise you.
As I disagree with a clutch issue being the cause of gears crashing / grinding when changing down.
 
You didn't answer the queries I posed regarding your initial issue, if you had I could better advise you.
As I disagree with a clutch issue being the cause of gears crashing / grinding when changing down.
apologies
as i said the garage a supposed fiat specialist said the clutch was problem so I went with their recommendation
changing from 1st to 2nd and second to 3rd is very notchy and stiff
changing down from 6th to 5th at speed sometimes also grinds/crashes
if I go into neutral and then into the gear in a slow fashion taking the revs off the problem is not as pronounced
I also notice a rattling when idling
unfortunately as mentioned in my other reply I cannot see evidence of the clutch being removed as I can gather that the access to the bell housing requires the disconnection of the hub or cv along with removal of the front chassis leg to enable access for removal which needs the front bumper to be removed and the vertical support bracket from the leg to the body (as i had to do when replacing the front suspension wishbones
I am awaiting a response from the garage to answer my concerns
 
apologies
as i said the garage a supposed fiat specialist said the clutch was problem so I went with their recommendation
changing from 1st to 2nd and second to 3rd is very notchy and stiff
changing down from 6th to 5th at speed sometimes also grinds/crashes
if I go into neutral and then into the gear in a slow fashion taking the revs off the problem is not as pronounced
I also notice a rattling when idling
unfortunately as mentioned in my other reply I cannot see evidence of the clutch being removed as I can gather that the access to the bell housing requires the disconnection of the hub or cv along with removal of the front chassis leg to enable access for removal which needs the front bumper to be removed and the vertical support bracket from the leg to the body (as i had to do when replacing the front suspension wishbones
I am awaiting a response from the garage to answer my concerns
In general terms clutch disengagement issues are usually noticed when trying to get first or reverse gear from a stand still, whether due to a faulty clutch assembly or the hydraulics operating it.
Things like clutch slip are usually noticed in the beginning when in the higher gears, pulling hard say from fourth to fifth etc.
What you initially described of grinding/crashing when changing down at speed, I would describe as worn synchromesh cones (the brass clutches that match the gears to the synchromesh hubs in the gearbox itself) where if you change gear slowly they will engage quietly with no problem until really worn. This can be aggravated by low gear oil, high mileage or hard driving in general terms.
Tied in with your later statements of rattling when idling (possibly first motion shaft bearings or lay gear bearings etc) I suspect your gearbox is due for a total overhaul or replacement unfortunately.
With regards to your suspicions regarding the recent clutch job, some "fast fit" type clutch specialists have ways of separating the bellhousing from the engine enough to change the clutch without removing driveshafts or disturbing suspension (not something I would advocate) but may account for less evidence of a normal strip down. However on close inspection I would still expect to see signs of socket marks etc on bellhousing bolts and other objects around there.
Others may say different, I am basing this on my working experience since 1969:)
 
Did he say the clutch was worn out or some other problem?

I had an issue many years back on my old Punto HGT multijet where the clutch got contaminated, and the clutch material swelled as a result. The clutch would then not release properly and you would get grinding gears when trying to change till eventually it got so bad it would not change gear at all.

Stopped with the engine off the gear changes all seemed fine.
 
Did he say the clutch was worn out or some other problem?

I had an issue many years back on my old Punto HGT multijet where the clutch got contaminated, and the clutch material swelled as a result. The clutch would then not release properly and you would get grinding gears when trying to change till eventually it got so bad it would not change gear at all.

Stopped with the engine off the gear changes all seemed fine.
thanks
the garage said the clutch needed replacing as he diagnosed that the fingers on the clutch plate would have gone causing the friction plate to not operate correctly
 
In general terms clutch disengagement issues are usually noticed when trying to get first or reverse gear from a stand still, whether due to a faulty clutch assembly or the hydraulics operating it.
Things like clutch slip are usually noticed in the beginning when in the higher gears, pulling hard say from fourth to fifth etc.
What you initially described of grinding/crashing when changing down at speed, I would describe as worn synchromesh cones (the brass clutches that match the gears to the synchromesh hubs in the gearbox itself) where if you change gear slowly they will engage quietly with no problem until really worn. This can be aggravated by low gear oil, high mileage or hard driving in general terms.
Tied in with your later statements of rattling when idling (possibly first motion shaft bearings or lay gear bearings etc) I suspect your gearbox is due for a total overhaul or replacement unfortunately.
With regards to your suspicions regarding the recent clutch job, some "fast fit" type clutch specialists have ways of separating the bellhousing from the engine enough to change the clutch without removing driveshafts or disturbing suspension (not something I would advocate) but may account for less evidence of a normal strip down. However on close inspection I would still expect to see signs of socket marks etc on bellhousing bolts and other objects around there.
Others may say different, I am basing this on my working experience since 1969:)
thanks
can you please advise where the gearbox oil filler and drain plugs are located on the casing so I can check
 
i have spoken with the garage and they taking the car back in
he says the car has a solid flywheel not a DMF and that early Cross 4x4 like ours had solid or DMF
he is going to check the hydraulics as well to see if there is air in the system
he also says the car was ok when he did a test drive so he is a bit puzzled but says he will resolve
 
sorry forgot to say that the Flywheel being solid does not have the bearing problem which fails and damages the gearbox
Re that bearing problem I think it is where a Dual Mass Flywheel has been changed for a solid one and some people claim it causes gearbox issues. In fairness I don't know too much about whether it does or not and believe it is more of a long term issue.
With your initial problem did you road test the car and show the mechanic how it grates etc. when changing down a gear, which I think is unrelated to any clutch issue, especially when you have a noise in neutral when idling as well, which presumably goes away when you press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, not just rest your foot on the pedal, which would indicate a fault inside the gearbox.
 
thanks
can you please advise where the gearbox oil filler and drain plugs are located on the casing so I can check
This is the view of my 4x4 - but with a five speed gearbox on a diesel engine, so maybe slightly different...
 
Hello
The car had both slave and master cylinder changed but did not solve the problem
The garage have removed the gearbox to check the clutch was ok and the correct one
They have found a broken spring in the flywheel which is a DMF and not solid as stated previously and a new one is on order
Hopefully this will sort the problem
 
Hello
The car had both slave and master cylinder changed but did not solve the problem
The garage have removed the gearbox to check the clutch was ok and the correct one
They have found a broken spring in the flywheel which is a DMF and not solid as stated previously and a new one is on order
Hopefully this will sort the problem
Personally not sure how the DMF would affect grating in a gear when changing down, but maybe others have more specific knowledge.:)
 
Back
Top