AndrewHarvey
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Well done! Progress is being made!
General Franko the 1971 500L
- Thread starter Franko500
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General Franko the 1971 500L
Old fuel pump diaphragms won't have be made with the ethanol in modern petrol in mind.
You now need to take Franko out on an essential journey over an hours' drive from home. (Mind you, ferrying a mother-in-law shows confidence!)
You have sorted out dealing with breakdowns in any case. When you get back from that you'll feel so confident you will realise that your Fiat 500 will take you anywhere on earth....you just have to point him there.
You now need to take Franko out on an essential journey over an hours' drive from home. (Mind you, ferrying a mother-in-law shows confidence!)
You have sorted out dealing with breakdowns in any case. When you get back from that you'll feel so confident you will realise that your Fiat 500 will take you anywhere on earth....you just have to point him there.
OP
OP
Slight problem last night, key broke off in ignition, unable to remove the broken part and unable to start the car or disable steering lock.
Had to call RAC breakdown for recovery home. 3hr wait, got in at 2:15 this morning.
Has anyone ever removed the lock barrel from the column? I never stripped mine that far. I think I need to remove the switch first to remove it.
Hopefully remove column tonight and have a look.
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Removed the steering column. Had to remove the dash pod, undo the wiring to the column, loosen the steering box and then release the column undoing the top and bottom bolt.
I managed to remove the lock mechanism by sliding a thin screwdriver down and lever the sprung loaded section away from the column slot. Once removed I decided to pull it apart.
Starting from the back there is a large spring clip that once removed allows all the switch components to be removed. I didn't need to do this I found out after.
The front part has a stainless steel cover on, this is held by 2 tabs that have been punched into recesses, with a small punch and screwdriver these were prised open and the cover removed.
The main lock is held in place by one rivet of sorts, of which after drilling out allowed the lock mechanism to be released.
With the lock removed the broken segment of the key could be removed.
Now all I need to do is see if I can find someone to make a new key using the old key and the lock. Then its just a matter of re-assembly.
I managed to remove the lock mechanism by sliding a thin screwdriver down and lever the sprung loaded section away from the column slot. Once removed I decided to pull it apart.
Starting from the back there is a large spring clip that once removed allows all the switch components to be removed. I didn't need to do this I found out after.
The front part has a stainless steel cover on, this is held by 2 tabs that have been punched into recesses, with a small punch and screwdriver these were prised open and the cover removed.
The main lock is held in place by one rivet of sorts, of which after drilling out allowed the lock mechanism to be released.
With the lock removed the broken segment of the key could be removed.
Now all I need to do is see if I can find someone to make a new key using the old key and the lock. Then its just a matter of re-assembly.
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Glad you got it apart.
Big problem with people who try and start old motors on the key, rather than pulling the start lever, or pushing the start button.
Same problem on my old LandRover, button start.
I make sure I am there when the MOT guys starts the engine, "do not try and start it on the key you will break it ", LandRover ignitions are more fragile than Fiats, and very expensive to replace.
Could have been damaged at the MOT.
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Big problem with people who try and start old motors on the key, rather than pulling the start lever, or pushing the start button.
Same problem on my old LandRover, button start.
I make sure I am there when the MOT guys starts the engine, "do not try and start it on the key you will break it ", LandRover ignitions are more fragile than Fiats, and very expensive to replace.
Could have been damaged at the MOT.
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AndrewHarvey
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There is the perfect locksmith in Canterbury Sean
Acme locks on the roundabout near Sainsburys
They were able to do the same with my 1951 Lambretta super helpful
Acme locks on the roundabout near Sainsburys
They were able to do the same with my 1951 Lambretta super helpful
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I know them well Andrew, not sure if I am in the are tomorrow, but will call in if I am
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I also had another problem yesterday. Whilst waiting at a junction ticking over nicely, Franko stalled and would not start again. Once again lack of fuel!
I have the new fuel pump on and the tank is filled nearly to the top.
Removed the hose to the pump, fuel came out, put it back on & it started first time.
Thoughts:
1. Picked up a blockage from the tank?
2. Break down of fuel hose
3. Problem with pump
4. Is the rod driving the pump protruding from the crankcase Long enough to drive pump?
5. Air leak in fuel hose causing air lock
I have the new fuel pump on and the tank is filled nearly to the top.
Removed the hose to the pump, fuel came out, put it back on & it started first time.
Thoughts:
1. Picked up a blockage from the tank?
2. Break down of fuel hose
3. Problem with pump
4. Is the rod driving the pump protruding from the crankcase Long enough to drive pump?
5. Air leak in fuel hose causing air lock
AndrewHarvey
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What cap do you have on the fuel tank?
Is it the original?
Is it the original?
How annoying...painful teething troubles Sean. I seem to remember a sledge-hammer being involved in the lock removal when I was younger and slightly more impatient than you are.
If you can get keys locally..great, but I found these guys really good. I just gave them the lock number.
BRA_7759 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
Was there no fuel in the float-bowl before you removed and then replaced the hose?
The strange thing is that at tickover you would be using less fuel so even an erratic supply should cause no problem.
I can see how you have so many suspects.
I think you're using poor Franko too much.
If you can get keys locally..great, but I found these guys really good. I just gave them the lock number.
BRA_7759 by Peter Thompson, on FlickrWas there no fuel in the float-bowl before you removed and then replaced the hose?
The strange thing is that at tickover you would be using less fuel so even an erratic supply should cause no problem.
I can see how you have so many suspects.
I think you're using poor Franko too much.
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I would have thought 1 or 5 were favourites if it ran ok for the majority of the time. Fingers crossed it is just a one off.
Welcome to the world of the 500 they can be a PITA at times but once you get over the teething problems Franko will probably run like clockwork. When I used mine on a daily basis it used to run fine with no tinkering for months on end but then little things like the tappets and timing would start to drift when they felt like, I am sure it was a case of him saying to me I fancy a rest. This was 5 days a week driving in London rush hour traffic and he never let me down.
Welcome to the world of the 500 they can be a PITA at times but once you get over the teething problems Franko will probably run like clockwork. When I used mine on a daily basis it used to run fine with no tinkering for months on end but then little things like the tappets and timing would start to drift when they felt like, I am sure it was a case of him saying to me I fancy a rest. This was 5 days a week driving in London rush hour traffic and he never let me down.
How annoying...painful teething troubles Sean. I seem to remember a sledge-hammer being involved in the lock removal when I was younger and slightly more impatient than you are.
If you can get keys locally..great, but I found these guys really good. I just gave them the lock number.
Was there no fuel in the float-bowl before you removed and then replaced the hose?
The strange thing is that at tickover you would be using less fuel so even an erratic supply should cause no problem.
I can see how you have so many suspects.
I think you're using poor Franko too much.
When I saw the dial code on that business card I thought that looks familiar, turns out they just down the road from me. I drive past it everyday near enough and have never noticed it, also known as Express Auto Keys.
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Andrew, yes its the original fuel cap. Seal appears to be ok.
Didn't get as far as checking float bowl. Although on my last fuel problem I stripped & checked float (metal one) and all jets etc.
When I noticed no fuel in the fuel filter when the engine was being turned over, this said to me that it is a fuel supply issue.
Either the pump is not pulling the fuel through or a blockage.
I see where Andrew may be thinking, when I pull the hose off the inlet to the pump, fuel should come through due to the tank being higher than the pump/hose. It came through but wasn't gushing out. Possibly cap breather not working properly?
Cheers for the advise on the keys - just noticed the number on the key. should make things easier.
Didn't get as far as checking float bowl. Although on my last fuel problem I stripped & checked float (metal one) and all jets etc.
When I noticed no fuel in the fuel filter when the engine was being turned over, this said to me that it is a fuel supply issue.
Either the pump is not pulling the fuel through or a blockage.
I see where Andrew may be thinking, when I pull the hose off the inlet to the pump, fuel should come through due to the tank being higher than the pump/hose. It came through but wasn't gushing out. Possibly cap breather not working properly?
Cheers for the advise on the keys - just noticed the number on the key. should make things easier.
AndrewHarvey
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I was more thinking about a vapour lock out of the fuel tank
Remove the cap and ensure that the vent isn't blocked
If it is the fuel will struggle to be drawn by the pump
Remove the cap and ensure that the vent isn't blocked
If it is the fuel will struggle to be drawn by the pump
AndrewHarvey
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I had a DS that ran horrid when I picked it up
It only had a rag as a cap - new cap - all good
so kinda opposite to what I think is wrong with yours
It only had a rag as a cap - new cap - all good
so kinda opposite to what I think is wrong with yours
OP
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New key from ACME locks, ignition lock and column back in!
Had an oil leak where I tightened most of the sump bolts up, must have been the ones that were hidden. Still kept coming out of the sump guard. Thought it was a broken spot weld but now think it had just got in there and now it's all come out.
Engine ran ok. Checked fuel tank cap, all breathing ok. Left it to run, after a while it started to reduce revs slightly, saw bubbles come up from the pump in the fuel filter, it went to about halfway up the filter and then picked up again.
Will give it another try tomorrow.
One thing I noticed is the fuel pipe I ordered was braided but this is external and doesn't have the internal re-inforcing, could be the pipe is collapsing?
Had an oil leak where I tightened most of the sump bolts up, must have been the ones that were hidden. Still kept coming out of the sump guard. Thought it was a broken spot weld but now think it had just got in there and now it's all come out.
Engine ran ok. Checked fuel tank cap, all breathing ok. Left it to run, after a while it started to reduce revs slightly, saw bubbles come up from the pump in the fuel filter, it went to about halfway up the filter and then picked up again.
Will give it another try tomorrow.
One thing I noticed is the fuel pipe I ordered was braided but this is external and doesn't have the internal re-inforcing, could be the pipe is collapsing?
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![IMG_0320[1].JPG](https://cdn.fiatforum.com/data/attachments/141/141464-c05f6ff4484b8e2860f82eb2369c0c9a.jpg)
That's Franko definitively finished the....so onto the "D"...pronto Sean.
I think your fuel issue might be evaporation because nearly the same just happened to me and in my case that was definitely the cause.
I was 25 miles from home on my 145 mile journey and halfway up a steep main road hill that's about two miles long, nearly straight and usually needs third gear. Murf was zooming up and managing it in fourth and I was pushing him hard. It seemed to falter like when the petrol runs out but I knew I had a few gallons as I had filled-up about 65 miles before, But I had used super-unleaded as a treat for the car....he deserves it.
There was no liquid fuel in the hose to the pump or in the one to the carb. After a second it came from the tank with no help. I had to crank quite a bit as I guess the fuel was cooling the pipes and carb by evaporation. The engine was really hot but "happy" hot. Maybe the super was affected more by heat as it has never happened before with unleaded.
In your engine there might be a lot of friction heat as you are still running-in. In my case I was just thrashing it; it won't stop me doing the same again.
I think your fuel issue might be evaporation because nearly the same just happened to me and in my case that was definitely the cause.
I was 25 miles from home on my 145 mile journey and halfway up a steep main road hill that's about two miles long, nearly straight and usually needs third gear. Murf was zooming up and managing it in fourth and I was pushing him hard. It seemed to falter like when the petrol runs out but I knew I had a few gallons as I had filled-up about 65 miles before, But I had used super-unleaded as a treat for the car....he deserves it.
There was no liquid fuel in the hose to the pump or in the one to the carb. After a second it came from the tank with no help. I had to crank quite a bit as I guess the fuel was cooling the pipes and carb by evaporation. The engine was really hot but "happy" hot. Maybe the super was affected more by heat as it has never happened before with unleaded.
In your engine there might be a lot of friction heat as you are still running-in. In my case I was just thrashing it; it won't stop me doing the same again.
OP
OP
Franko drove very well today. I sorted out the sticking throttle pedal after removing the rear outer cable, making sure no kinks in the wire, fair amount of grease. But what I did find was that the small p clamp holding the throttle & choke cable was pinching too tight and causing it to cause the sticking. Now it's more responsive and easier to drive. Drove on dual carriageway at 80kmh for about 20 mins, didn't falter. No fuel issues. Just need to little him settle in and then check him over.
