General Franko the 1971 500L
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General Franko the 1971 500L
OP
OP
Starter sorted.
Seem to have intermittent spark now
Checked points gap, changed cap & rotor arm, still no spark
Seem to have intermittent spark now
Checked points gap, changed cap & rotor arm, still no spark
IanEmery
Established member
Possible you've had the ignition switched on and overheated the coil?
As Ian said it could be the coil. Is it a standard 500 one?
It's come up in the past where people have fried a standard 500 coil when they have upgraded to a 650 alternator set-up.
I just found an old post that I remember from a while back. Where I posted this?
"Are you running the coil from the original 500 engine? One suggestion I have found on another forum is that when changing from a 500 to 650, so by default you are going to go from dynamo to alternator. The output of the alternator charges the Battery to a higher voltage approx 14-15v. The coil from a 500 setup isn't expecting much more than 12v, anything greater then the coil starts to overheat and breakdown. See if your coil is really hot whilst the engine is running. Also measure the LT side of the coil if it is anything higher than about 12.4v it will damage a standard 500 coil. The resolution is to fit a ballast resistor on the positive LT wire to the coil that will reduce the voltage down".
It's come up in the past where people have fried a standard 500 coil when they have upgraded to a 650 alternator set-up.
I just found an old post that I remember from a while back. Where I posted this?
"Are you running the coil from the original 500 engine? One suggestion I have found on another forum is that when changing from a 500 to 650, so by default you are going to go from dynamo to alternator. The output of the alternator charges the Battery to a higher voltage approx 14-15v. The coil from a 500 setup isn't expecting much more than 12v, anything greater then the coil starts to overheat and breakdown. See if your coil is really hot whilst the engine is running. Also measure the LT side of the coil if it is anything higher than about 12.4v it will damage a standard 500 coil. The resolution is to fit a ballast resistor on the positive LT wire to the coil that will reduce the voltage down".
OP
OP
I bought a new magneti marelli coil. Been ok Upton now. Just swapped over with my original 500 coil that I used when I first built the engine.
Still no spark
Think I will give up for tonight, can't take it to the show now, it's s bit of a distance and I really need to make sure this thing is roadworthy
Tomorrow is another day!
Still no spark
Think I will give up for tonight, can't take it to the show now, it's s bit of a distance and I really need to make sure this thing is roadworthy
Tomorrow is another day!
Last edited:
Probably a good idea Sean seeing that it is 10 o'clock at night
It can only be coil, condensor or you have knocked a wire taking the starter motor off.
Fresh start in the morning and you'll find it in 10mins.
Oh btw I posted that solenoid tonight, apologies I forgot all about it. I was looking for something else in the van and it reappeared in its envelope complete with stamp and I thought oh s*** I forgot about that.:bang:
It can only be coil, condensor or you have knocked a wire taking the starter motor off.
Fresh start in the morning and you'll find it in 10mins.
Oh btw I posted that solenoid tonight, apologies I forgot all about it. I was looking for something else in the van and it reappeared in its envelope complete with stamp and I thought oh s*** I forgot about that.:bang:
IanEmery
Established member
Have you by any chance replaced the ignition switch? I ask because since changing mine I've noticed that, although the key is turned, sometimes the ignition lights aren't illuminated which means the circuit isn't established and as our 500s have a lever start it's possible to be turning the engine, thinking it should show a spark, but in fact the ignition isn't switched on. I changed my switch as the original had this, intermittent, fault only to find the replacement is worse:bang: Might your switch be the same?
OP
OP
Cheers Ian, no that's fine I got a live at coil when ignition switched on, just no spark
Check you condensor and also the little plastic isolator washer that it is not cracked. I had s similar issue with mine, oh and I also swapped the leads around on my coil by accident.
AndrewHarvey
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Sean
Did you resolve the lack of spark?
We went to the Deal "classic car" show
It was quite horrid - extremely loud bands, more Staffordshire bull terriers than anywhere needs - oh and some cars
Did you resolve the lack of spark?
We went to the Deal "classic car" show
It was quite horrid - extremely loud bands, more Staffordshire bull terriers than anywhere needs - oh and some cars
OP
OP
I finally resolved the sparking problem this morning.
I checked the coil, 2 ohms between + & -, and 8500 ohms on the high voltage side. These are all good results.
My old coil which also worked before was similar between +& - and 7500 ohms high voltage.
so I thought I would check the distributor. checked all was working, no cracks in the plastic insulator, points all ok. Then there it was!
Duhh somehow I had set the distributor up wrong. I had set the pulley at the correct point for the timing and set the points up by turning the distributor in the wrong direction. so the rotor was nearly 90 degrees out.
Ignition on, pulled the lever, started straight away even without the choke on. I got it running as best as I could but to be honest with the vibrations through the car it was hard to tell what was the sweet spot.
So out come the uprated engine spring and back in with the original. What a difference that made. The car has stopped shaking, the front number plate has stopped shaking like Beyoncé's rear end, and all the vibrations have gone. The engine seemed to be running better as well.
With a slight adjustment to the mixture and idle it sat running quite sweet.
Took it for a run up the road, no problems.
Took it for a run a bit further and back, all ok.
Then I thought I would give it a longer run, going really nice. sitting at the front of a que at the traffic lights, they went green, the car went nowhere!
It stalled and would not start again.
So I pushed it to the side and a nice bloke helped me park it on the path. God these cars are small.
With my new helpful assistant pulling the starter I could see no fuel, only bubbles coming through the filter. Now I know I haven't run out as I just put 10 litres in.
Off came the fuel pump. stripped it apart. Couldn't see anything wrong but I changed the diaphragm over with the bottom one to see if it made any difference. Vroom it started straight away. Thanked my assistant, jumped in the car and brought it straight home! parked him up and went to see the car show without Franko.
Andrew it was a good turn out, with a large variety of cars, sadly only one 500 there which seems to be doing its rounds. Not the best example (apologies if the owner reads this) but at least it made it which is more than I can boast about. But yes the ABBA tribute was loud, although nice legs
.
So next step - new fuel pump. I knew I should have bought a new one
I checked the coil, 2 ohms between + & -, and 8500 ohms on the high voltage side. These are all good results.
My old coil which also worked before was similar between +& - and 7500 ohms high voltage.
so I thought I would check the distributor. checked all was working, no cracks in the plastic insulator, points all ok. Then there it was!
Duhh somehow I had set the distributor up wrong. I had set the pulley at the correct point for the timing and set the points up by turning the distributor in the wrong direction. so the rotor was nearly 90 degrees out.
Ignition on, pulled the lever, started straight away even without the choke on. I got it running as best as I could but to be honest with the vibrations through the car it was hard to tell what was the sweet spot.
So out come the uprated engine spring and back in with the original. What a difference that made. The car has stopped shaking, the front number plate has stopped shaking like Beyoncé's rear end, and all the vibrations have gone. The engine seemed to be running better as well.
With a slight adjustment to the mixture and idle it sat running quite sweet.
Took it for a run up the road, no problems.
Took it for a run a bit further and back, all ok.
Then I thought I would give it a longer run, going really nice. sitting at the front of a que at the traffic lights, they went green, the car went nowhere!
It stalled and would not start again.
So I pushed it to the side and a nice bloke helped me park it on the path. God these cars are small.
With my new helpful assistant pulling the starter I could see no fuel, only bubbles coming through the filter. Now I know I haven't run out as I just put 10 litres in.
Off came the fuel pump. stripped it apart. Couldn't see anything wrong but I changed the diaphragm over with the bottom one to see if it made any difference. Vroom it started straight away. Thanked my assistant, jumped in the car and brought it straight home! parked him up and went to see the car show without Franko.
Andrew it was a good turn out, with a large variety of cars, sadly only one 500 there which seems to be doing its rounds. Not the best example (apologies if the owner reads this) but at least it made it which is more than I can boast about. But yes the ABBA tribute was loud, although nice legs
So next step - new fuel pump. I knew I should have bought a new one
AndrewHarvey
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Sean - we had The Ben Mills band at 120dB and no nice legs!!!!!
I took small children who love cars but it wasn't suited for them
There were some right stinkers there!
We loved the Messerschmitt bubble car
I have a spare fuel pump if you want one to get you going
I took small children who love cars but it wasn't suited for them
There were some right stinkers there!
We loved the Messerschmitt bubble car
I have a spare fuel pump if you want one to get you going
It's good to hear that Franko's getting about a bit. You'll soon be sailing along 50 miles and more from home with not a worry in the world.
I carry a spare, brand-new pump with me as well as the one in the car having been replaced....they're so cheap!
You're doing exactly the right thing with your shakedown testing....sorting everything promptly as soon as it goes wrong and then back in the saddle.
I carry a spare, brand-new pump with me as well as the one in the car having been replaced....they're so cheap!
You're doing exactly the right thing with your shakedown testing....sorting everything promptly as soon as it goes wrong and then back in the saddle.
OP
OP
I went for the cheap one...exhibit "A". My 500 engines both had "Savara" pumps, which are smaller, have four screws rather than six and for which spares seem unavailable; the 650 has one of those sealed ones.
On the 500 engine I had to turn the top part through 60 degrees to get the inlet and outlet roughly right.
The clue might be the mention of alternator on one description as that is a little bulkier than the dynamo of earlier engines.
You would know it will fit if you got a repair kit; I had one which I was trying to adapt for the Savara and they are very comprehensive.
I would be buying a new pump with a matching diaphragm as spare. The kits are in quite a tough, sealed package and would keep safely for along time if stowed in your spares kit.
I have never had all the messing that some people refer to about packing the pump to get the rod activation right, but it might also be worth checking that carefully, especially since you have previously mentined a clatter when things weren't right the other day. It hadn't occurred to me until Andrew mentioned it recently, that the fuel pump activation is one of the noises in that harmonic symphony that the engine makes when running.
On the 500 engine I had to turn the top part through 60 degrees to get the inlet and outlet roughly right.
The clue might be the mention of alternator on one description as that is a little bulkier than the dynamo of earlier engines.
You would know it will fit if you got a repair kit; I had one which I was trying to adapt for the Savara and they are very comprehensive.
I would be buying a new pump with a matching diaphragm as spare. The kits are in quite a tough, sealed package and would keep safely for along time if stowed in your spares kit.
I have never had all the messing that some people refer to about packing the pump to get the rod activation right, but it might also be worth checking that carefully, especially since you have previously mentined a clatter when things weren't right the other day. It hadn't occurred to me until Andrew mentioned it recently, that the fuel pump activation is one of the noises in that harmonic symphony that the engine makes when running.
nzbobc
New member
I bought exhibit "B."
What a pain: As Peter mentioned, it ended up being problematic with an alternator. I had to file a corner off of the pump due to the interference with the alternator. Not that big a deal, tho. What's worse is that I can't remove the pump without first removing the alternator. And, as you know, to remove the alternator, you have to remove the fan and tinware (and the stuff attached to the alternator and tinware). Total PITA.
What a pain: As Peter mentioned, it ended up being problematic with an alternator. I had to file a corner off of the pump due to the interference with the alternator. Not that big a deal, tho. What's worse is that I can't remove the pump without first removing the alternator. And, as you know, to remove the alternator, you have to remove the fan and tinware (and the stuff attached to the alternator and tinware). Total PITA.
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revschecker12
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Hello
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OP
OP
Good news day!
The DVLA kindly returned all of my original documents today including the original Italian Log book/Service book.
I don't know what you were all complaining about.
If i get time i will try and update the thread on V5 docs with the information i supplied to hopefully make it easier for others.
Although my D may be a bit more difficult as i dont have any info apart from the chassis number and NOVA document.
The DVLA kindly returned all of my original documents today including the original Italian Log book/Service book.
I don't know what you were all complaining about.
If i get time i will try and update the thread on V5 docs with the information i supplied to hopefully make it easier for others.
Although my D may be a bit more difficult as i dont have any info apart from the chassis number and NOVA document.
OP
OP
Fuel pump exhibit A is definitely the one for an engine fitted with the alternator. The lower body gives it more clearance and lifts it at an angle above the alternator. This allows access to remove it without removing the alternator.
Exhibit B is 90 degrees from the block and suitable only for dynamo.
Exhibit B is 90 degrees from the block and suitable only for dynamo.
OP
OP
I took Franko for another test drive today.
The mother in law had got the bus here and so I drove her home in Franko,
We got there fine, which was about twice the distance from before. Just as I pulled up and left it to tick over he died and would not start. Fuel starvation again.
So off with the original pump with diaphragms that I had changed with some other old ones. Time for the new pump. He started up straight away and drove home again. I then took him for a longer run and I think all is resolved. Looking at the old diaphragm and the new ones there is a distinct difference in terms of the new one being flat rubber type material where as the old ones were raised. I don't know if they are suppose to be like that but all my old ones were.
So now he seems to be running really well and I got him up to 80kph today.
I did have a strange knocking noise from the back, I had my suspicions it was coming from the rear shocks. After removing the rear seat base it was clear this was correct. Although the nuts are tight, there is movement within the bushes and the metal insert was knocking on the body. Unlike the front ones they don't have a rubber lip that sits within the hole either.
It would appear the spacer was to long and the bushes were not clamping up tight enough. So I took 2mm off the spacer and that did the trick. No knocking noise now. In fact Franko has very few noises at all.
The only thing I noticed was a vibration around the dash area when in first gear at highish revs, and if I take it out of gear sometimes at low speed I can hear a rotational noise probably from one of the rear drums as the shoes are bedding in on possible slight distortion in the rear drum.
Off to Greece for a week Tuesday morning. So Franko is now hiding back in his garage until I get back.
The mother in law had got the bus here and so I drove her home in Franko,
We got there fine, which was about twice the distance from before. Just as I pulled up and left it to tick over he died and would not start. Fuel starvation again.
So off with the original pump with diaphragms that I had changed with some other old ones. Time for the new pump. He started up straight away and drove home again. I then took him for a longer run and I think all is resolved. Looking at the old diaphragm and the new ones there is a distinct difference in terms of the new one being flat rubber type material where as the old ones were raised. I don't know if they are suppose to be like that but all my old ones were.
So now he seems to be running really well and I got him up to 80kph today.
I did have a strange knocking noise from the back, I had my suspicions it was coming from the rear shocks. After removing the rear seat base it was clear this was correct. Although the nuts are tight, there is movement within the bushes and the metal insert was knocking on the body. Unlike the front ones they don't have a rubber lip that sits within the hole either.
It would appear the spacer was to long and the bushes were not clamping up tight enough. So I took 2mm off the spacer and that did the trick. No knocking noise now. In fact Franko has very few noises at all.
The only thing I noticed was a vibration around the dash area when in first gear at highish revs, and if I take it out of gear sometimes at low speed I can hear a rotational noise probably from one of the rear drums as the shoes are bedding in on possible slight distortion in the rear drum.
Off to Greece for a week Tuesday morning. So Franko is now hiding back in his garage until I get back.
