General Fractured

[Night35]

Is a fractured axile an issue with the Panda.

Had it MOTd. Was thinking of scrapping it.

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):
Rear Axle fractured (5.1.1 (a))
Parking brake efficiency less than 50% of the required value (1.4.2 (a) (ii))
Repair immediately (major defects):
Offside Rear Rear fog lamp does not emit a steady red light (4.5.4 (a))
Rear Suspension component corroded and seriously weakened axle (5.3.3 (b) (i))
Nearside Front Shock absorbers has a serious fluid leak (5.3.2 (b))
Offside Rear Parking brake inoperative on one side (1.4.1 (a))

 

[varesecrazy]

Age.. mileage and general condition will dictate the action required

The rear beam failing is a major job for an old car.

 

[Night35]

Age.. mileage and general condition will dictate the action required

The rear beam failing is a major job for an old car.

60k mileage, 2010 plate

How long to replace as I think labour os £70 per hour. Plus the rest of the failing that need done

 

[jrkitching]

Is a fractured axle an issue with the Panda.

It's by no means unusual on older Pandas.

Was thinking of scrapping it.

The economics depend on a number of factors; the age of the car, its condition (apart from the known defects) and, perhaps most of all, how much of the work you can do for yourself.

A new (aftermarket) axle is surprisingly cheap, but unless you can fit it yourself, the cost (along with all the other stuff), will likely exceed the value of the car.

If you can't fix this yourself, give serious consideration to selling it 'as is' - it's probably an economic repair for an enthusiastic DIY type and you might get more than you think. You could even advertise it here for free.

 

[Night35]

It's by no means unusual on older Pandas.




The economics depend on a number of factors; the age of the car, its condition (apart from the known defects) and, perhaps most of all, how much of the work you can do for yourself.

A new (aftermarket) axle is surprisingly cheap, but unless you can fit it yourself, the cost (along with all the other stuff), will likely exceed the value of the car.

If you can't fix this yourself, give serious consideration to selling it 'as is' - it's probably an economic repair for an enthusiastic DIY type and you might get more than you think. You could even advertise it here for free.

Labour as around £70 an hour. Was going to buy that part for them to fit- they suggested this. But 50/50- only got 60k milegage

 

[varesecrazy]

Labour as around £70 an hour. Was going to buy that part for them to fit- they suggested this. But 50/50- only got 60k milegage

The rear brake will come apart for the axleswap.. so no additional labour

Look on Gumtree to see what 11 year old pandas are selling for..

IF you had planned to keep the car .. then a £600/£750 bill could be 'acceptable'

£70 per hour.. that only allows @5 hours work.. did they quote a total ?

Parts AND labour.. watch out for the 20% VAT

 

[Night35]

The rear brake will come apart for the axleswap.. so no additional labour

Look on Gumtree to see what 11 year old pandas are selling for..

IF you had planned to keep the car .. then a £600/£750 bill could be 'acceptable'

£70 per hour.. that only allows @5 hours work.. did they quote a total ?

Parts AND labour.. watch out for the 20% VAT

The other parts how do you think? The axile was the only thing they said to get.

 

[varesecrazy]

The other parts how do you think? The axile was the only thing they said to get.

??????
Replace ...or repair.. Immediately:

Front suspension strut Left Side

Rear Right Parking Brake

 

[Night35]

??????
Replace ...or repair.. Immediately:

Front suspension strut Left Side

Rear Right Parking Brake

Sorry meant cost -parts. As I said he just said get the axile gave me the details.

 

[koalar]

if you are doing the job yourself and are prepared to wait for parts here in the UK

complete rear springs, adjusters, shoes and cylinders can be had for around £50 new

rear axle £30 breakers. Brakes normally come complete and will probably be okay. But I advise you to inspect before fitting

strut and spring £15 breakers complete unit 4 bolts

thats assuming you have drum brakes


getting a disc brake axle for a Panda from the breakers is pretty much impossible.


Everything is fairly easy. However you need tool and experience in dealing with the brake lines

Which leaves the dodgy 500 axil swap for discs and adding 50mm spacers up front. Or use a new universal axil, preferred.

 

[Night35]

if you are doing the job yourself and are prepared to wait for parts here in the UK

complete rear springs, adjusters, shoes and cylinders can be had for around £50 new

rear axle £30 breakers. Brakes normally come complete and will probably be okay. But I advise you to inspect before fitting

strut and spring £15 breakers complete unit 4 bolts

thats assuming you have drum brakes


getting a disc brake axle for a Panda from the breakers is pretty much impossible.


Everything is fairly easy. However you need tool and experience in dealing with the brake lines

Which leaves the dodgy 500 axil swap for discs and adding 50mm spacers up front. Or use a new universal axil, preferred.

If I told any of my mates etc I replaced a wheel they would freak out so I will not be touching it all lol.

 

[jrkitching]

When you take a car like this to a garage, once they start stripping everything out, costs can escalate quickly - and by then, you're committed.

then a £600/£750 bill

An independent garage could easily cost you twice that, once everything has been added up.

As I said earlier, this is a car worth saving, but it's likely only economic to do so for someone who can do the work themselves.

To the OP, if you've the funds to put into a better car, then that's what I'd do. Otherwise you'll spend the next 2/3 years wondering if it will stay sufficiently reliable to get some value out of the considerable sum you'll need to spend having a garage repair it now.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This sounds very much like my experience with Becky except her rear axle is probably savable or so I'm hoping. Becky is a 2010 1.2 Panda with mid 60,000 miles on her and over the last few years I've been replacing pretty much all the things talked about here. N/S Front strut (shock absorber) blew out so I replaced them both but when I looked at the springs and top mounts it just didn't make sense not to do them too. The clutch started giving trouble so it had to be done and I got our local indy to do that so that was around the £400 mark. I replaced the cam belt and water pump myself and rebuilt the front brakes at minimum cost by reusing a lot of the old parts. The rear cylinders then started leaking and I started doing them myself, deciding to replace cylinders, metal brake pipes and flexi hoses but I couldn't get the front to rear pipe tube nuts to free from the flexy hoses on either side. In the end I handed it over to Harrisons and they did the job for me - they had to use their oxy acetylene torch to free the unions.

Now I'm about to try to save my rear axle which has significant rust on the spring pans but not on the beam or swing arms. If close examination reveals it to be beyond worth saving I'm going to buy one of those pattern made axles for about £120 and swap over all the bits - won't that be fun! Unlike Italian cars of olden days, the body shells seem to resist rust quite well now. Mine is very good indeed. Had the body been suffering from structural rust I just wouldn't be bothering.

The big difference for me is that I can do most of this stuff myself and if I do have to call on either of my favourite wee local garages their labour is charged out at around the £45 to £50 mark so I can do stuff much more cheaply than you. As has been said above, often when you start getting involved in larger jobs, like for instance doing the rear axle - which, by the way, is well known for corroding - it's not unusual to come across complications and unexpected expenses so I think JRK's advice above is worth thinking about seeing as how you're going to have to pay someone else to do everything.

 

[koalar]

front shocks pair 1.3 hours
rear axle 1.4 hours
wheel cylinder pair .8 hour

so 4 hours if everything goes well


Labour will be more than the parts


unless you can do the work yourself or have a friend in the trade its unlikely you would find anywhere where the value of the car is more than the repair total.



there are reasons to throw this sort of money at a repair. It my have sentimental value, or have a new engine or gearbox.

 

[jrkitching]

so 4 hours if everything goes well

Book times are tight, even on a brand new car, and assume the person doing the work is thoroughly familiar with the procedure.

I wouldn't want to try and fix this in 4 hours. Given that the rear beam has rusted out, most of the parts you'll need to remove will also be well corroded. It sometimes takes a lot of time to remove rusted fastenings. It wouldn't surprise me if it'll need brake lines remaking, perhaps new self adjusters for the rear shoes (not cheap) etc. I also can't imagine you'd want to put the rear shocks back on; the springs might be marginal once you inspect them properly, the list just keeps getting longer.

There are folks on this forum that have spent weeks swapping out a rear beam .

That said, a well equipped garage with a decent lift, air tools & professional grade sockets has a big advantage over most DIY types.

But it'd be a brave (or foolish) mechanic who would quote a fixed price in advance for this job.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I meant to say, don't you just love the way the garage described it as a "fractured" rear axle? somehow "fractured" makes it all sound so much more human, as in "fractured leg" or "fractured pelvis" or "fractured whatever".

 

[Night35]

Food for thought.

I have little time to go looking for a new car. The money I can throw at it without being too worried. Mainly used for work.

I was hoping the garage saying to get the axile myself was a sign I would be saving myself in the process.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Food for thought.

I have little time to go looking for a new car. The money I can throw at it without being too worried. Mainly used for work.

I was hoping the garage saying to get the axile myself was a sign I would be saving myself in the process.

If you can get an axle from a breaker which is not rotten and which has good brakes (You could always make up a good set from the two axles to tide you over, but it would be best if the "new" axle had good cylinders, metal and flexi pipes as well as hand brake cables so avoiding the need to do much to the new axle) Then swapping them over is really quite a simple job so shouldn't be too expensive. A pattern made new axle, where you've got to transfer all the bits over from the old axle, would very likely end up in a big bill.

PS If I were to play the part of devils advocate, I might guess that the garage is suggesting you source the axle yourself because they know it's going to be difficult to find one without significant corrosion problems? Look in particular at the spring pans which seem to be the worst affected parts, judging from mine and others I've seen.

 

[Night35]

If you can get an axle from a breaker which is not rotten and which has good brakes (You could always make up a good set from the two axles to tide you over, but it would be best if the "new" axle had good cylinders, metal and flexi pipes as well as hand brake cables so avoiding the need to do much to the new axle) Then swapping them over is really quite a simple job so shouldn't be too expensive. A pattern made new axle, where you've got to transfer all the bits over from the old axle, would very likely end up in a big bill.

Said get this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143387542678

Asked them how much they think this will be to get through the MOT- hopefully get bacj tomorrow.

 

[koalar]

Book times are tight, even on a brand new car, and assume the person doing the work is thoroughly familiar with the procedure.

I wouldn't want to try and fix this in 4 hours. Given that the rear beam has rusted out, most of the parts you'll need to remove will also be well corroded. It sometimes takes a lot of time to remove rusted fastenings. It wouldn't surprise me if it'll need brake lines remaking, perhaps new self adjusters for the rear shoes (not cheap) etc. I also can't imagine you'd want to put the rear shocks back on; the springs might be marginal once you inspect them properly, the list just keeps getting longer.

There are folks on this forum that have spent weeks swapping out a rear beam .

That said, a well equipped garage with a decent lift, air tools & professional grade sockets has a big advantage over most DIY types.

But it'd be a brave (or foolish) mechanic who would quote a fixed price in advance for this job.

Book times are fitting new parts and swapping everything over.

If a garage can’t swap a front strut. Four bolts / struts in less than 15 minutes they don’t deserve to be in business


Same with the rear axle no need to swap the pipes, drums over.


I would expect to do this on my drive lying on my back in about a day, taking my time