Technical Fiat Panda - Front Wheel Bearing

[JAMLAX]

My main question is: How many thousand miles should I drive with a 'rumbling' wheel bearing?

I suspect the front offside needs replacing soon, judging by the pronounced noise - its especially noisy whenever (ever so slightly) I ease the steering towards the left. The main clue was when I eased off the throttle, reducing speed from 70 mph to 50 mph approaching a roundabout...very obvious noise! My brother mechanic had previously mentioned he suspected a wheel bearing might be on the way out.

Am I right in thinking a completely worn out wheel bearing can overheat to the point where the wheel hub shears and the wheel hub collapses?

 

[jrkitching]

Am I right in thinking a completely worn out wheel bearing can overheat to the point where the wheel hub shears and the wheel hub collapses?

I know of at least one case where this actually happened, leading to significant damage to the car; the driver was fortunate in so far as no other vehicle was involved.

The insurer paid for the repair cost, including a new hub, but deducted the price of the wheel bearing!

I would personally not continue to drive a car with a knowingly defective wheel bearing. Wheel bearing condition is part of the MOT for a reason, and if you were aware of the fault, it could invalidate your insurance.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

My main question is: How many thousand miles should I drive with a 'rumbling' wheel bearing?

I suspect the front offside needs replacing soon, judging by the pronounced noise - its especially noisy whenever (ever so slightly) I ease the steering towards the left. The main clue was when I eased off the throttle, reducing speed from 70 mph to 50 mph approaching a roundabout...very obvious noise! My brother mechanic had previously mentioned he suspected a wheel bearing might be on the way out.

Am I right in thinking a completely worn out wheel bearing can overheat to the point where the wheel hub shears and the wheel hub collapses?

There's no way to reliably predict this - too many variables. I've known rumbly bearings to go on for quite a while and then seen ones which were rumbly one day and completely failed the next. Needs to be done a.s.a.p. in my view. If you leave it too long the hub, flange, and other parts, which would normally be reusable, may be damaged beyond reuse. This can significantly increase the cost of repair. And then there's the safety angle which should be obvious if you think about it to say nothing of what an invalid insurance could cost you.

 

[jrkitching]

There's no way to reliably predict this - too many variables. I've known rumbly bearings to go on for quite a while and then seen ones which were rumbly one day and completely failed the next.

This, exactly.

I've seen wheel bearings with so much play that the wheel was practically hanging off that were completely silent; I've had others that sounded like a screech owl yet had no discernable play whatsoever.

Not something worth taking a chance with, IMO.

 

[JAMLAX]

My instinct is totally in line with all the above answers. Thanks for putting things in the safety perspective. I'm resolved now to replace this bearing pronto!

 

[koalar]

My instinct says it needs diagnosing properly

Worse at 50 than 70 isn't normally wheel bearing

Although extra wind and road noise might be effecting the results

 

[JAMLAX]

Actually, I didn't say it was worse at 50 mph than at 70 mph! What I was trying to convey was this: as soon as I lifted my foot off the throttle (thus allowing the car to lose its steady cruising speed of 70 mph) the resulting slight shift in forward weight resulted in an immediate and steady 'noise alteration' that I am guessing is the front offside wheel-bearing.
I have jacked the front of the car up and spun the wheel with one hand (and keeping hold of the front spring with the other hand) I can feel a slight vibration from the spring as the wheel spins.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Actually, I didn't say it was worse at 50 mph than at 70 mph! What I was trying to convey was this: as soon as I lifted my foot off the throttle (thus allowing the car to lose its steady cruising speed of 70 mph) the resulting slight shift in forward weight resulted in an immediate and steady 'noise alteration' that I am guessing is the front offside wheel-bearing.
I have jacked the front of the car up and spun the wheel with one hand (and keeping hold of the front spring with the other hand) I can feel a slight vibration from the spring as the wheel spins.

One of the best ways to decide which wheel it is is to find a safe place - deserted road, empty supermarket car park, etc and weave the car side to side as you drive along. As the wheel comes under load it's usually louder - So a front right wheel bearing will be more noisy when steering to the left because it's more heavily laden.

 

[JAMLAX]

Yes, I've done the slight left multiple times and I'm sufficiently convinced I need a wheelbearing ... so I've already booked my regular local garage to take a look and do what's required! Many thanks all!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes, I've done the slight left multiple times and I'm sufficiently convinced I need a wheelbearing ... so I've already booked my regular local garage to take a look and do what's required! Many thanks all!

good luck, do keep us posted as to outcome?

 

[koalar]

Braking have any effect on the noise

Done dozens of wheel bearing, they use to be a common failure point but not as common these days

There normally speed dependant
They normally change with cornering loads

I never had one change noise when coasting

I guess there always an exception

 

[PAMIC]

On my Panda 100HP there was a dreadful noise which initially seemed to be wheel bearing. But as a basic check I swapped wheels front to rear & the noise moved. So the tyres were the problem 6 month old budget tyres - well there was only 1 place for them. Fitted OEM Goodyear tyres and got rid of noise and handling vastly improved at the same time.
Later on I did think a front wheel bearing was noisy, but it turned out to be the rear wheel bearing. SO make sure you get the bearings checked all around the car.
Once I had a customer tell me to replace a specific wheel bearing, which we did in the workshop. Off they went and came back the next day complaining that the noise was still there. So after a test drive & further examination we changed the bearing that we diagnosed as faulty, unsurprisingly the noise went away. So they paid to replace a good wheel bearing as well as the defective one.
Oh and wheel bearings can run noisily for hundreds of miles or seize with little notice, sudden seizure or wheel loss are not issues you would want to contend with. Get it sorted without delay.

 

[JAMLAX]

Currently the Panda is in the garage awaiting the new wheelbearing and hub parts...no doubt in this particular situation that it is the front offside wheelbearing has disintegrated...the lack of regular usage by the previous owner of 19 years plus the six months sat idle in the car sales forecourt probably have contributed to the wheelbearing failure. That'll do for an update for now...hopefully in a few days time I'll look forward to a fuller, more detailed update on what can only be described as a scunnersome saga at this present moment!

 

[JAMLAX]

I made the mistake of suggesting to my local mechanic that I could assist his efforts to extract a stubborn front wheelbearing from its 'moorings'. To cut a long story short, I eventually managed to track down a suitable used spare 'hub' and today after 3 hours of waiting at the scrappy, plus waiting another half hour for the unreliable bus, I finally presented my busy mechanic with the vital spare part! The Panda, still up on the ramps since Friday afternoon, was immediately sorted out and I have satisfied myself that the noisy wheebearing has indeed now been exchanged for a smooth silence.

I've just got home from a pleasant drive on a variety of winding country roads - 60 miles per hour - no problem!

And if I ever need another front wheelbearing I'll know to spend £50, wait 3 hours at the car dismantlers, then set to work myself, taking apart half a dozen nuts and bolts (no need for a press) .... and in this way I won't need to return brand new ebay wheelbearings and hubs for refunds on unrequired parts!

 

[DaveMcT]

I have replaced Panda front wheel bearings with a screw press tool. It was an absolute horror. The bearings are a VERY tight fit. New (good used) knuckle make sense.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have replaced Panda front wheel bearings with a screw press tool. It was an absolute horror. The bearings are a VERY tight fit. New (good used) knuckle make sense.

Dismantling this sort of thing has become much easier since I bought my air hammer but invariably ends with the complete destruction of the old bearing, which is Ok because I'm replacing it anyway - sometimes I facilitate the removal by nicking the bearing race, especially if it's the inner race on a shaft, with my angle grinder to induce a stress point and then cracking it with a sharp hammer blow, removal is easy after that. I have an old and very substantial Churchill tool which I found on a stand at the, now long defunct, Portobello auto jumble. It's a bit like a massive heavy duty bearing press - I've no idea what it was originally intended for but works very well as a press for things like wheel bearings. I've seen lots of videos on ebay where people have stuck the bearing in the freezer over night to shrink it slightly and I've always meant to try this but, so far, have never had the time.

 

[DaveMcT]

My inner flange (that splines onto the driveshaft) came out of the bearing without damage. To be fair a new flange is not silly expensive. A wobbling disc is a sign of that flange being damaged.

The first problem was getting the outer race out of the knuckle casting I don't have a big enough burner to quickly heat the casting or a hydraulic press. But really they are the key tools. The bearing came out but I was using a 2ft breaker bar, heavy bench vice and all my strength. I have done others with the same tool and had no major issues.

I thoroughly cleaned the knuckle casting, heated it to 200 C in the oven and put the bearing in the freezer. It dropped in 1/2 way and stuck. At least it was deep enough to be aligned. I pressed it the last bit with a spacer so no pressure went on the inner race. It needed considerable force but not as bad as the removal job. The car did another 30,000 miles so presumably it was a "proper job"

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I pressed it the last bit with a spacer so no pressure went on the inner race. It needed considerable force but not as bad as the removal job. The car did another 30,000 miles so presumably it was a "proper job"

Always worth drawing attention to this when it's mentioned. So, for our less experienced friends, what am talking about? well, it takes, usually, tons of pressure to seat one of these bearing assemblies. If we think about installing the bearing into the upright casting. The fit between the outer race and the casting is going to be very tight - it needs to be for it to work properly, too loose and it'll rotate in the housing which wouldn't be good. The temptation is to simply push against the centre of the bearing but you must not do this or the balls will indent the races and irreparably damage them. It may seem ok initially but the bearing will fail prematurely. You must use a spacer of some sort to press only on the outer race. The old bearing can often be used. Same thing when pressing the hub flange into the centre of the new bearing. The inner bearing race must be supported whilst the hub is forced into it.

There you go - Tirade over and hopefully that'll have saved someone a lot of grief and the cost of another bearing to replace the new one they just ruined!

 

[JAMLAX]

Many thanks Jock and Dave - its very helpful to have the forewarning of the 'extra-tightness' of the Fiat Panda front wheelbearings - my personal view is now firmer than ever, that with my somewhat rough and ready approach to mechanical solutions, I'll go with the solution that has served me well in the past...in other words I've already sourced the 'entire-front-left-hand-side-assembly' (the whole wheelbearing caboodle) from a car dismantler and will store it in my shed until needed. Here's hoping I've made a good quality purchase at £28.00 and can remain within my competence zone!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Many thanks Jock and Dave - its very helpful to have the forewarning of the 'extra-tightness' of the Fiat Panda front wheelbearings - my personal view is now firmer than ever, that with my somewhat rough and ready approach to mechanical solutions, I'll go with the solution that has served me well in the past...in other words I've already sourced the 'entire-front-left-hand-side-assembly' (the whole wheelbearing caboodle) from a car dismantler and will store it in my shed until needed. Here's hoping I've made a good quality purchase at £28.00 and can remain within my competence zone!

if you mean the whole hub assembly, so the upright casting complete with wheel bearing and drive flange then that sounds a bit of a bargain. Was any mention made of the age/mileage on the vehicle it came off?