General Fiat ducato 2.8 2001 starting

[capette]

Hello, i have a problem, the engine wont start.
WEATHER IS -15
WHEN IGNITION IS ON THE GLOW PLUG LIGHT WORKS NORMALLY, BUT WHEN I TRY START THE ENGINE IT START BLINKING/FLASHING, BUT THE GLOW PLUGS IS NEW IN MY DUCATO, WHAT CAN I TRY TO DO ?

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello,
Minus 15'C is pretty cold..!!

if 1 plug or more is struggling to heat = try this,

turn ignition on + wait for heater light to go out,
turn off ignition , then back on..

do this 4 times THEN turn to next position - starter ,

if it still is no better , then you either have a glow-plug system fault where NONE are actually heating,
or different, non - glowplug problem,

good luck,
Charlie

 

[capette]

Glow plugs is three weeks old

 

[capette]

can you say wheres glow plugs relay?

 

[moodrater]

Check the voltage on the glow plugs with a multimeter, is that 2.8d 2.8 idtd or 2.8jtd?
If it has a flame start as well as the glow plugs then flashing could be to indicate diesel injection on the flame start glow plug and be normal. If you haven't been using it recently it may have summer diesel in it that has gelled.

 

[rikdogg]

I had a similar problem with mine - glow plug light would flash for a minute after starting. The van was very difficult to start and needed a lot of cranking. I replaced the glow plug relay - on my RHD model it was located high up on the engine bulkhead behind the battery (passenger side). It is a square 50 amp relay. I also cleaned up the earthing point located under the battery tray.

The van started first time afterward - so it was either a relay / earthing problem.

Hope you get it sorted! RD

 

[rikdogg]

This was on a 2001 2.8D.

 

[Scuby]

This was on a 2001 2.8D.

I have a starting issue on a 01 2.8 JTD

Glow plugs light comes on with key on but kicks right off, same when cranking. Started after 8 to 10 revolutions in warmer weather, now in the cold won't kick on.

Does the JTD have glow plugs that need to cycle first? Or JUST flame start, or both?

Either way it's not starting and was "slow" to start when I bought it 2 months ago..

 

[Torq]

If this is an idtd engine and not a JTD then the blinking glowplug light can be due to a weak battery. My camper has is a 2.8idtd and though it will start on a weak battery the glow plug light will flash after. When I make sure the battery is charged before starting (13.5V) I don't get the problem.

 

[Torq]

I have a starting issue on a 01 2.8 JTD
Started after 8 to 10 revolutions in warmer weather, now in the cold won't kick on.

That's way too many revolutions, mine starts on 3 in any weather.

 

[Ricky1964]

That's way too many revolutions, mine starts on 3 in any weather.

Hi, can you advise me, my 2005 2.8 jtd flame start ( no glow plugs) takes 3/4 turns to start up ,but it’s so slow you think the battery is dead,it’s a new one! Is yours slowturning? Once started and warm it starts instantly,many thanks

 

[Communicator]

Hi, can you advise me, my 2005 2.8 jtd flame start ( no glow plugs) takes 3/4 turns to start up ,but it’s so slow you think the battery is dead,it’s a new one! Is yours slowturning? Once started and warm it starts instantly,many thanks

Are you confusing revolutions with compressions? When starting, the crank sensor has to locate the crankshaft position, and the ECU has to determine the stroke via the camshaft sensor. If the stopping position was just after the camshaft sensing point then the crankshaft will require nearly two revolutions before the stroke is determined and injection can commence.

 

[Ricky1964]

Are you confusing revolutions with compressions? When starting, the crank sensor has to locate the crankshaft position, and the ECU has to determine the stroke via the camshaft sensor. If the stopping position was just after the camshaft sensing point then the crankshaft will require nearly two revolutions before the stroke is determined and injection can commence.

Mm probably revolutions then, really slow,I don’t think mine has an ecu last. Of the 2006 old shape,thanks

 

[Communicator]

Mm probably revolutions then, really slow,I don’t think mine has an ecu last. Of the 2006 old shape,thanks

Your engine is a 2.8jtd, 8140.43s, as is mine. The ECU (Engine Control Unit) is on the LHS inner wing near the air filter. The common rail electronically controlled 2.8jtd replaced the earlier 2.8idTD in 2000, and was originally fitted in the existing x230 model, from which the x244 is derived. The changes were rather more tha a "facelift".

Photo is with black outer cover removed.

Edit: The 2.8idTD with mechanical injection, would not have to wait until it determined the stroke, and could conceivably fire on first compression.

 

[Ricky1964]

Your engine is a 2.8jtd, 8140.43s, as is mine. The ECU (Engine Control Unit) is on the LHS inner wing near the air filter. The common rail electronically controlled 2.8jtd replaced the earlier 2.8idTD in 2000, and was originally fitted in the existing x230 model, from which the x244 is derived. The changes were rather more tha a "facelift".

Photo is with black outer cover removed.

Edit: The 2.8idTD with mechanical injection, would not have to wait until it determined the stroke, and could conceivably fire on first compression.

Hi,thanks for reply,I’ve recently had the thermo starter replaced, normally when I turn ignition on the glow plug symbol is off in a second or two, yesterday when 0 degrees here it stayed on for about 8/10 seconds ,am I still supposed to be waiting for it to go out? I read on Google not to wait it will go out after starting, again once started starts on the button all day long

 

[Communicator]

Hi,thanks for reply,I’ve recently had the thermo starter replaced, normally when I turn ignition on the glow plug symbol is off in a second or two, yesterday when 0 degrees here it stayed on for about 8/10 seconds ,am I still supposed to be waiting for it to go out? I read on Google not to wait it will go out after starting, again once started starts on the button all day long

I have attached a relevant extract from Fiat eLearn. Study at your leisure. Also see this link to Motor Roam website.
I have not previously read of any need to replace the thermal starter components.

 

[Ricky1964]

Hi,thanks for reply,I’ve recently had the thermo starter replaced, normally when I turn ignition on the glow plug symbol is off in a second or two, yesterday when 0 degrees here it stayed on for about 8/10 seconds ,am I still supposed to be waiting for it to go out? I read on Google not to wait it will go out after starting, again once started starts on the button all day long

I have attached a relevant extract from Fiat eLearn. Study at your leisure. Also see this link to Motor Roam website.
I have not previously read of any need to replace the thermal starter components.

I have attached a relevant extract from Fiat eLearn. Study at your leisure. Also see this link to Motor Roam website.
I have not previously read of any need to replace the thermal starter components.

I have attached a relevant extract from Fiat eLearn. Study at your leisure. Also see this link to Motor Roam website.
I have not previously read of any need to replace the thermal starter components.

Thanks again for reply, the timing for glow lamp seems to tie in with mine and the weather, it’s the very slow turning that is the problem, earth is ok and battery,so starter? But why start instantly when warm, surely if starter was in way out it would play up when warm as well as cold?

 

[Communicator]

Slow cranking speed with a good battery suggests either, failing ,or wiring. The x244 does not suffer fom the faulty earth strap, which is a recurring problem on the x250. Internal corrosion can occur at the flag terminal which makes the main chassis earth, below the front end of the battery, and close to the RHS engine mounting. In cold weather worn motor brushes may be stiffer in their holders, and suffering from less spring pressure. The engine itself may also be stiffer. In another recent thread, @Raglits , the OP, fitted a new starter motor and was delighted with the result.

Another reason for failure to start could be a failing camshaft or possibly crankshaft sensor. Such faults could be temperature dependent. Until the ECU can determine the crankshaft position, and stroke, it will not initiate injection.

 

[Ricky1964]

Slow cranking speed with a good battery suggests either, failing ,or wiring. The x244 does not suffer fom the faulty earth strap, which is a recurring problem on the x250. Internal corrosion can occur at the flag terminal which makes the main chassis earth, below the front end of the battery, and close to the RHS engine mounting. In cold weather worn motor brushes may be stiffer in their holders, and suffering from less spring pressure. The engine itself may also be stiffer. In another recent thread, @Raglits , the OP, fitted a new starter motor and was delighted with the result.

Another reason for failure to start could be a failing camshaft or possibly crankshaft sensor. Such faults could be temperature dependent. Until the ECU can determine the crankshaft position, and stroke, it will not initiate injection.

Thanks again for reply, I put a jump lead from battery to engine ( to eliminate bad earth)and still slow to fire up, but now getting confused with the glow light, the motor roam thread says to fire up straight away, the other document says to wait till light is out, ?? What do you do ,I always waited till light out, also a friend mentioned to put a lead from starter to battery,?thanks again, someone also mentioned injector ,I hope not

 

[Communicator]

Thanks again for reply, I put a jump lead from battery to engine ( to eliminate bad earth)and still slow to fire up, but now getting confused with the glow light, the motor roam thread says to fire up straight away, the other document says to wait till light is out, ?? What do you do ,I always waited till light out, also a friend mentioned to put a lead from starter to battery,?thanks again, someone also mentioned injector ,I hope not

I generally wait until the end of the self test time, before cranking the engine. As my vehicle is a PVC and perhaps because it is rarely used in winter, I cannot remember the flame starter operating. For further info on flame starter operation see eLearn extract, but this does say wait until light goes out. Do be aware that the Motor Roam website is descibing an earlier relay controlled version of the system, installed on an 2.8idTD. The 2.8jtd version is controlled by the ECU.
On the x244, the existing cable between battery positive and starter solenoid is one piece 35 sq mm running under the intercooler and radiator. Not likely to suffer from corrosion, so little to be gained by running a parallel cable.
At this stage I would discount an injector problem. While typing another possibility has come to mind. Some early 2.8jtds suffered from bad alignment of the camshaft sensor. I think that packing washers were fitted a remedy. However I would have expected that particular fault to affect all starts, irrespective of engine temperatre.

Unfortunately you could have an injector with excessive leakoff. This would result in the pressure in the fuel rail being drained off overnight. The ECU needs a minimum pressure, subject to confirmation, of 200Bar, before injection is allowed. This would mean that the engine would need to turn over several times, before the required pressure is achieved. To eliminate you would need to carry out a leakoff test.

Picture from another thread by @arnelis .