Technical Fiat Ducato 2.0 JTD 11 SWB engine cuts out

[mwooly10]

ok well i went out and cleared the codes, and the van shuddered and the following code kept coming back on, i unplugged it and plugged it back in again and tried again, and the same happened.

P0191 - diesel pressure sensor - signal low - fatal

Still stuck in limp home mode though

 

[moodrater]

Check rail pressure sensor wiring with a multimeter to the ecu, inspect the wiring all the way back incase its rubbing somewher and shorting out.
Probably safer to disconnect the battery for a few mins before disconnecting the ecu.

Pin 1 - Blue - Pin 92 ecu
Pin 2- Orange - Pin 91 ecu
Pin 3 - Maroon - Pin 90 ecu

 

[mwooly10]

Ok well that was tomorrows job anyway trying to inspect as much wiring as i could.

Getting into new territory testing electrical stuff though Actually think i need battries for my multi meter. will check as much as possible though.

Think i could do with downlaoding a good diagram/manual of the engine, Have you got any recommendations?

 

[moodrater]

You can download the e-learn manual from the downlaod serction at the top of the forum. Ducato 2002-2006 eLEARN Workshop Manual

Amusingly the pressure sensor k083 is missing from the wiring diagram though it is in the component location diagram below.



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Componentcode

Description

A040

HEATERPLUGS

B001

JUNCTIONUNIT

B002

JUNCTIONUNITUNDERDASHBOARD

B099

MAXIFUSEBOXONBATTERY

C010

LEFTFRONTEARTH

C040

ENGINEEARTH

D001

FRONT/DASHBOARDCOUPLING

D004

FRONT/ENGINECOUPLING

D097

SHORTCIRCUITINGCOUPLING

D145

FRONT/CILC(FUELLEVELGAUGECIRCUIT)COUPLING

D186

FRONT/ABSCOUPLING

E050

INSTRUMENTPANEL

K031

WATERINDIESELFILTERSENSOR

K036

ENGINECOOLANTTEMPERATURESENSOR/SENDERUNIT

K041

AIRFLOWMETER

K046

RPMSENSOR

K047

TIMINGSENSOR

K055

ACCELERATORPEDALPOTENTIOMETER

K084

SPEEDOMETERSENSOR

H001

IGNITIONSWITCH

I050

INERTIASWITCH

L005

INJECTIONPUMPTHIRDPISTONDEACTIVATIONSOLENOIDVALVE

L030

EGRSOLENOIDVALVE

L062

THROTTLEBODYSOLENOIDVALVE

M010

ENGINEMANAGEMENTECU

M015

PLUGPREHEATINGCONTROLUNIT

M050

ABSCONTROLUNIT

N041

FUELPUMPANDEPICLEVELGAUGE

N070

INJECTOR

N077

FUELPRESSUREREGULATOR

N084

PASSENGERCOMPARTMENTADDITIONALFAN

O007

OILVAPOURHEATINGRESISTANCE

O020

Dieselheatingresistance

 

[mwooly10]

Just so i know im looking at the right one then. As there are 2 plugs on the pressure regualtor. one on top and one just off the side, im assuming the top one is the sensor.

Will go and download that and have a look through it

 

[mwooly10]

it says download is not available

Will have a look around on the net see if i can find anything

 

[moodrater]

No your looking at the pump connector on the top is third piston deactivation solenoid, side is pressure ragulator, the pressure sensor is screwed into the bottom of the rail where all the injector pipes come off..

 

[moodrater]

it says download is not available

Will have a look around on the net see if i can find anything

I've added component locations for you.

If you google for eLearn_FIAT_Ducato_Doblo_Panda_Punto_Stilo_Albea_www.manual-car.org.ua.rar you can find it bundled with those other cars I think.

 

[mwooly10]

No your looking at the pump connector on the top is third piston deactivation solenoid, side is pressure ragulator, the pressure sensor is screwed into the bottom of the rail where all the injector pipes come off..

oh ok will look in the morning

 

[mwooly10]

I've added component locations for you.

If you google for eLearn_FIAT_Ducato_Doblo_Panda_Punto_Stilo_Albea_www.manual-car.org.ua.rar you can find it bundled with those other cars I think.

ok thanks :worship:

 

[mwooly10]

Well i think thats more than enough to make my tired brain go numb

Im hoping it is a wire shorting and its easy to find. I need the van tomorrow night. Should of guessed really. ABS light stays on a little longer sometimes when restarting., just hope the vans not knackered just yet

 

[moodrater]

Abs pump and ecu are in the same quarter with all the undretray, arch lining etc missing they've possibly been getting a daily dousing I wouldn't be surprised if its corrosion. I'd check the earth points as a lighty source of oddities c040 on the diagram

 

[mwooly10]

Yeah i will do.. first place i'll try and start is near the passenger wheel, as when that gets soaked in a big puddle it cuts out. but will start with the ecu like you say and work down and around that area first..

Looks like im in for a fun day i was hoping to go to work as its in doors and under cover, so i hope it doesnt rain tomorrow or looks like im getting the gazebo out

Will try and have a good look at the diagram in the morning, and suss out where to look .. thanks

 

[mwooly10]

well ive had the earth points off and cleaned, ecu unplugged, checked some wires and plugs. cant see anything, but its still stuck in limp home mode.

not sure im going find this one tbh

 

[mwooly10]

Right well so far still the same

Spoke to one garage and he said he sounds like a faulty injector isnt spraying right, or the pumps faulty..

Spoke to an auto electrician and he said straight away yeah had this a lot with these just change the pressure sensor, i asked if he could check electrics and he said to be honest you'd be paying me for nothing.

oh well now ive got to drive 35 miles to pick the hire van back up and pick my lad up.. going no more than 30 mph if im luck.. oh what joy

 

[mwooly10]

Also the garage i spoke to said he'd have to take the pump out to change the sensor?

Anyway ive ordered one for tomorrow morning and the garage i use said i can borrow a ramp to do it.

Is there anything i should or shouldnt do when im changing the fuel pressure sensor?

Any tips would be handy

 

[moodrater]

You're entering danger territory now throwing parts at it. Probably better spent on the diesel specialist if he's got a good reputation, a good diesel guy will put the oscilloscope on the sensors and rule them out. The average mechanic will throw pump, injector, sensor parts at it blindly and it might turn out to be a corroded wire or the ecu.

Whats it reading for fuel pressure and fuel pressure signal, graph it to see if its varying or static as you change revs. If you're not getting a signal then you can check with the multimeter:
pin 1 is ground should be zero or almost zero volts
pin 3 is supply to the sensor should be 5v
pin 2 is the output voltage that tells the ecu what pressure is in the rail. At tick over you should have somewhere around 1.2-1.4V.

By the way if you fancy some light reading :yum: this is largely the same as yours engine:
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...6pLjWAHE-Cvy4RmOJ9kiX3g&bvm=bv.42553238,d.ZG4

 

[mwooly10]

Well the van is parked at work, so will take the netbook in the morning and graph it, Wont rev much but should still do the job i need.

If it needs pump,injectors and the like, then they are worth alot more than the van so i'll have to bite the bullet and buy another one. I doubt with the mileage and flaky paint i would get more than £500 for it, and with it stuck in limp home mode and everyone i called busy until the middle of next week.

im in a bit of catch 22. as i need the van for work and i cant afford to have a hire van every week or i wouldnt earn any money.

I understand what your saying though, just wish i knew a bit more as even this next task is beyond anything ive done so far ..

 

[mwooly10]

Right well i changed the fuel pressure sensor, didnt know why i was worry was quite straight forward to do

Anyway theres good news and bad news.

Good news is im out of limp home mode and the van drives again

Bad news is its just as before with the egr clicking and smoking and cutting out.

Read the codes and the only one that comes up again is

P0191 - diesel pressure control - invalid signal - stored - light on

When im driving it feels very choked up at times, first couple of miles was a nightmare cutting out whenever i just pressed the pedal. But then got on the motorway and eased it up to 85 mph. then after a while it clicked again and cut out. seems if i keep the revs high it will drive better but when your getting in higher gears its a bit harder to keep the rev high enough for that gear, so it eventually cuts out again.

 

[Crossingkeeper]

I must be going crazy; I was 100% sure that I'd already suggested that as you first had the fault after the thin black wire from the accelerator 'broke' (just out of curiosity did it fray or burn through?) that the repair might have affected the resistance of the 'fly by wire' circuitry & you'd replied that it had been repaired previously and you didn't have problems then.

Anyway I can't now find that post so it must be early onset Alziehmers so can I revisit this same suggestion......you mentioned that it seems to be better at high revs so do you think the cutting out happens when the accelerator pedal is in a certain position in its travel?