Technical Fiat Ducato 2.0 JTD 11 SWB engine cuts out

[moodrater]

No its just bog standard.. re; your previous post i was thinking the same, im just about to go outside in a mo and clear the codes and then retest it tomorrow after ive been out in in.

Wanted to get to the bottom of the clicking noise today and seeing that im always on my own, i got a large brush to push the accelerator down with my head in the engine

Well it is the EGR valve that is clicking its nuts off when i accelerate. had a play with the pipes and had a look at the actuator. there is a suction on there. so ran it again and it was a pile of junk couldn't drive much.

So i took the EGR valve off and you could see the pin going up slowly when i plugged the pipe back on, When i unplugged the actuator it fell, and rose when i plugged it back in. Same happened when i unplugged the MAF sensor. so it seems to be working, just not when i want to drive anywhere..

Now people have said blank it off, but how do you get the top off, as last time the top broke off so i didnt have to do anything, or is the EGR faulty and just not working as it should..

You blank it off at the flange at the exhaust manifold. If you know that its closing and make sure its closed then you can just clamp off the vacuum pipe some people shove a ball bearing into the tube so it look like its not been tampered with.

 

[mwooly10]

Ah ok.. I have a clamp somewhere will do that as its easiest. Yes it does close when the engines off i checked that too whilst i had it off so i could see what it was doing.

Will take it for a spin later, should it run better or still a bit rough just not cutting out?

 

[mwooly10]

Well been out for a spin, Still runs the same and still clicks and cuts out as before

 

[mwooly10]

Well its just coming up with one code now.

P0191 - Diesel Pressure Control - Invalid Signal - Stored - Light on

Checked Fuel pressure and it comes up around 297 bar, Desired comes up around the same. and on the graph one stayed straight and one went just above and just below that one. Pressed accelerator and it went high, let go and it went right down and then balanced back out to being steady.. Hope that makes sense

 

[cris1117]

Hi. You need to blank off that EGR as described by moodrater that is the only way you can be sure the EGR isn’t playing up.

You can make a blank out of a baked bean can just to try it, it will last a couple of thousand miles before it burns through, or buy one off eBay for a couple of pounds that will last indefinitely.

 

[mwooly10]

Ok.. Well tried the clamping of the pipe and even unplugging it, but still clicks so i presume it still opens somehow with the pressure..

Where exactly do i fit the blanking plate though, as the connection points on my egr are all round, or do i have to fit it down the back at the other end of the copper pipe that comes out of the egr??

If so thats a bugger to get too..

 

[moodrater]

If if still clicking when disconnected it must be loose in someway. For blanking intake side is easiest, shape of the plate will elucidate:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-blank...hicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19d42fac1b&_uhb=1

 

[mwooly10]

It didnt seem loose the other day when i had it off, i could hardly lift the plunger with my finger. So im lost on whats making it lift up.

Cheers for link silly question but mines a JTD but suppose it should still fit.

I had a look before, so i fit that on the top of the engine where the egr exhaust manifold goes, held in by what looked like 2 x torque bolts.

do i need a new seal to go with it?

 

[mwooly10]

Sorry for all the questions.. but ive fixed a few bits here and there over the years to get me home but im not really that mechanically minded yet.. but i trying to have a go and learn a bit

 

[mwooly10]

I give up

I put a blanking plate in at the end of where the copper pipe goes just at the back on the engine(what a bugger that was). and i had the egr off so i checked it wasnt coming through. Connected everything back up and its still the same, foot down and egr clicks and smokes and cuts out. Even unplugged egr and it still clicks. The actuator has a noise like something is loose inside going up and down sort of ticking noise.

 

[moodrater]

Well done it is a tight spot. It can click all it wants now once its blanked you know thats not your problem. I do wonder though is it clicking because of a pulse of excess exhaust pressure in the exhaust because of an exhaust blockage.

Sorry I missed your post about the rail pressure, you are making great progress now!

You need to graph it under load, under full load the pressure should be something around 1300bar, see what happens when it faults. At some point theres a deviation between the requested and reported pressure. My guess is its coming up short.

I would do a rudimentary leak off test first by taking out the return hoses on the injectors while its running one by one and seeing if one is flowing significantly more than the others, the more scientific way it so attach tubes and bottles to the returns and measure the return flow to check for a dodgy injectors but you can often see at a glance a bad injector.

 

[moodrater]

Forgot do say check the duty cycle of the fuel pressure regulator at idle "fuel pressue regulator %" in fiat ecu scan..

 

[mwooly10]

Well done it is a tight spot. It can click all it wants now once its blanked you know thats not your problem. I do wonder though is it clicking because of a pulse of excess exhaust pressure in the exhaust because of an exhaust blockage.

Sorry I missed your post about the rail pressure, you are making great progress now!

You need to graph it under load, under full load the pressure should be something around 1300bar, see what happens when it faults. At some point theres a deviation between the requested and reported pressure. My guess is its coming up short.

I would do a rudimentary leak off test first by taking out the return hoses on the injectors while its running one by one and seeing if one is flowing significantly more than the others, the more scientific way it so attach tubes and bottles to the returns and measure the return flow to check for a dodgy injectors but you can often see at a glance a bad injector.

No need to be sorry after all it is you helping me

Yeah took me a while, but as it was still clicking i took it back out, and on the way home yesterday it sounds like i have a small blow somewhere, and it runs really choky and rough but is a little harder to cut out. does it more on hills when i need more power. think i may take the egr off and clean it as i didnt have time yesterday and it was full of crap from messing around yesterday.

Well im off to the garage now to get the wheel fixed so at least it'll drive the way i want it to go

So if its not the egr then i think im leaning more towards the wiring loom then, as whenever i mess it does help if only for a short while.

Im probably a pain knowing bugger all, but thanks for the help so far

 

[mwooly10]

Well got my wobberly wheel sorted today, ended up being the ball joint.

I didnt think it was gonna be that dirty but changed the fuel filter again, and it was black.. Still the same and only 1 fault coming up which is the diesel pressure control.

So we think its either a faulty pump, sensor or wiring. so its now booked in at a diesel specialist on tuesday to hopefully find the fault and fix it


Will keep you informed as to what it is.. well providing they can find the fault

 

[mwooly10]

Forgot to mention. Did the test you said and fuel pressure on idle was the same as the other day just under 300 bar and at 4000 revs was only getting up to around 940 bar.

Also reason i took the egr blank back out was i might not have time to take it out during the week and with it not being a proper one, just one to test it i didnt want to risk it burning through with all my miles being on the motorway.

 

[moodrater]

The egr if it has a problem was never the main issue anyway but its good to have it blanked off and rule it out.

Was that 940bar under load sounds very low, what was the desired pressure at that pressure, did you check the pressure regulator % also.

 

[mwooly10]

The egr if it has a problem was never the main issue anyway but its good to have it blanked off and rule it out.

Was that 940bar under load sounds very low, what was the desired pressure at that pressure, did you check the pressure regulator % also.

Yeah true, although the actuator has a rattle in it that is quite loud think i'll have a look at that tomorrow.

Well if by load you mean foot on the pedal, the 940 bar was at 4000 revs. Didnt look at the desired or think i looked at the pressure regulator but ive forgot what it said.

Will plug it in tomorrow during the day and write a few fugures down, on idle and one with a bit of revs.

 

[moodrater]

Underload would be actually driving it.

 

[mwooly10]

ah ok. I'll have to have a look into that one

Well i did some tests this morning.

Actuator tests
Fuel pump relay - ok heard it running
fuel pressure regulator - no sound
egr soleniod valve - no sound

All under idle
Fuel metering - 9.7 mg/i
total fuel quanity - between 7/10 mg/i
Fuel pressure - 305 bar (so up on the other day just)
fuel pressure signal - 1.329v
desired fuel pressure - 306 bar
Fuel pressure regualtor - 17.82%

Im not sure what they are suppose to be but hopefully you'll beable to tell if anythings seem out of place or too low.

 

[moodrater]

ah ok. I'll have to have a look into that one

Well i did some tests this morning.

Actuator tests
Fuel pump relay - ok heard it running
fuel pressure regulator - no sound
egr soleniod valve - no sound

All under idle
Fuel metering - 9.7 mg/i
total fuel quanity - between 7/10 mg/i
Fuel pressure - 305 bar (so up on the other day just)
fuel pressure signal - 1.329v
desired fuel pressure - 306 bar
Fuel pressure regualtor - 17.82%

Im not sure what they are suppose to be but hopefully you'll beable to tell if anythings seem out of place or too low.

All those reading look fine at idle.

You need to graph fuel pressure, desired fuel pressure, fuel pressure regulator % under load contitions like driving up a a long stright hill. afterward pull in and export the graph to a csv file. Zip the csv file and attach it to your post here or change the name to .txt and attach it.