Tuning Fiat Bravo 120 T Remap Results

[LSP]

Hmm, another suspect figure.

HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252...

If your max torque comes in at the same time as mine

300nm x 3594rpm ÷ 5252 = 205 bhp

If your max torque comes in at 2874RPM (as had been quoted in this thread by another member)

300nm x 2874 ÷ 5252 = 164 bhp

Now, if your car is like mine, and it gets it's power at the very top end, 5,500 rpm.. which in theory max power should be...

Move the equation; TORQUE = HP x 5252 ÷ RPM

185hp x 5252 ÷ 5500rpm = 238

If your car is dropping from 300mn down to 238 nm by the red line, then you need to seriously look at your engine. 26% drop is vast. In comparison, 3,500 to 5,500 mine drops from 243 down to 216, a 12% drop

Put another way....

Astra VXR 2.0 T (240 bhp) comes in at 320nm of torque. Are you seriously suggesting you are only shy 20 nm off a VXR? That has 55 more bhp? And don't suggest the transmission - they use the same M32 gearbox.


To cut a long story short - your figures aren't possible.

To bad I don't have my new run. I still got the old figures before they redesigned my software. This was with the old software, with power on the wheels (take a minimum of 10% up of it to get engine output):

I wasn't satisfied with the results, because they didn't want to unlease full potentional because of the cluch and gearbox. I told them there was plenty of marge left and they redone there job. They told me they chipped it now to 185BHP and 300NM. Especially in the higher RPM there is much more power. I stil have to go to them for making a new testrun, but this car has gaint more power from the first chiptuning to the second, than from original to the first.

And, just to show you, your talking nonsens, this is a run from a Bravo of a guy I know, who is on the same dyno, with the same software from the same company:

How do you mean, 185BHP and 300NM is impossible? My car is now just as quick as his.

Ow and, 320NM out of a Bravo T-jet bull**** you say? Having the same gearbox won't say it got the same gearratio. Both C544 and C530 are called M32, but are differend inside. Look at this, also completely stock, only chipped:

 

[RobBravo]

I've just broken it down clearly and you just won't read it.

Your run shows 165 ish and 255nm ish. I don't personally see how you could gain 20 bhp and 45 nm torque..

Anyway, we come back to the same point.

185 Bhp with 300 nm torque - Bravo

240 bhp with 320 nm torque - VXR

A difference of 55 bhp... and only 20 nm torque

So in theory... could a Bravo keep up with VXR? In gear, 40-70 for example... could a Bravo keep up with a VXR? If the difference is only 20 nm and the Bravo should be lighter. Food for thought.

If your happy with your car and the way it's mapped then I'm happy for you.. but for me, the figures don't add up.

Agree to disagree - cause I no longer want to argue



l3v1athan - can I see a picture of your car please?

 

[RobBravo]

Last point...

That last graph looks pretty poor.

What's the point in all of that torque if it drops like a complete stone? It would pull so much harder to the redline if it could hold the figures up for longer.

It drops 47% torque from max to redline... vs my 12%.. (although mine comes in later)

By 5500 rpm, it's at the same torque as mine... 210nm. Unless of course I've read the graph wrong

 

[l3v1athan]

l3v1athan - can I see a picture of your car please?

Hahahaha I don't have one yet. First found the forum to see if the Bravo and any major problems. It didn't and I just fell with the car so I joined. I've been looking for a few months now and they're very difficult to come by in South Africa. But I'm gonna go see one this week, so maybe by the end of the week I'll be an owner at last.

 

[RobBravo]

Hahahaha I don't have one yet. First found the forum to see if the Bravo and any major problems. It didn't and I just fell with the car so I joined. I've been looking for a few months now and they're very difficult to come by in South Africa. But I'm gonna go see one this week, so maybe by the end of the week I'll be an owner at last.

Best of luck - hope to see one with your name on it soon

 

[l3v1athan]

Best of luck - hope to see one with your name on it soon

Thanks man and hopefully I'll be able to get it to 200bhp and personally test myself if it's capable of sub 7 sec 0-62mph time. Sorry if I caused chaos on your thread

 

[RobBravo]

Sorry if I caused chaos on your thread

Not at all, if anything it makes the thread better.

I don't like to think of it as chaos or arguements etc... I like to think of it as a debate

Life would be boring if we didn't question eachother - we wouldn't learn anything either.

If I disagree with someone, and they prove me wrong.. then fair play to them. But unless I ask the questions I wouldn't learn anything. There's loads of good information and debates in this thread now if anyone in the future wants to read through

 

[LSP]

I've just broken it down clearly and you just won't read it.

Your run shows 165 ish and 255nm ish. I don't personally see how you could gain 20 bhp and 45 nm torque..

Anyway, we come back to the same point.

185 Bhp with 300 nm torque - Bravo

240 bhp with 320 nm torque - VXR

A difference of 55 bhp... and only 20 nm torque

So in theory... could a Bravo keep up with VXR? In gear, 40-70 for example... could a Bravo keep up with a VXR? If the difference is only 20 nm and the Bravo should be lighter. Food for thought.

If your happy with your car and the way it's mapped then I'm happy for you.. but for me, the figures don't add up.

Agree to disagree - cause I no longer want to argue



l3v1athan - can I see a picture of your car please?

I get what you try to say, but the fact is, that there are Bravo's with 185BHP and 300NM. The dynorun above I posted confirms that.

I have done a lot of races on the German autobahn against other hot hatches. There isn't much difference. Read my post about a Golf VII GTI against my Bravo few pages back. The amount of torque in the Bravo is availible at a large RPM range. That makes the Bravo very quick, dispite his lower HP/NM.

And yes, English isn't my native language. I could discuss much better in Dutch, but I don't think thats a good idea in your opinion.

 

[Fergie]

I'd actually be very interested to see the Lamda readings, boost readings and charge temps from LSP's runs.

I'm guessing its dumping in a load of fuel at low revs to cause the boost to spike and then its basically just generating heat the way the torque drops the way Rob describes. Maybe a turbo upgrade would cause some real gains?

A few points I would add:

Generally torque x RPM = POWER

In a lot of cases the area of the graph matters a lot more than 'peak' power.

A diesel will almost always have more torque than BHP due to the rev range.

Ultimately its down to how the car drives, what you want it for and how it feels to you

 

[RobBravo]

And yes, English isn't my native language. I could discuss much better in Dutch, but I don't think thats a good idea in your opinion.

Well, if I'm honest, your English is very good!

Better than some English people even

 

[LSP]

I'd actually be very interested to see the Lamda readings, boost readings and charge temps from LSP's runs.

I'm guessing its dumping in a load of fuel at low revs to cause the boost to spike and then its basically just generating heat the way the torque drops the way Rob describes. Maybe a turbo upgrade would cause some real gains?

A few points I would add:

Generally torque x RPM = POWER

In a lot of cases the area of the graph matters a lot more than 'peak' power.

A diesel will almost always have more torque than BHP due to the rev range.

Ultimately its down to how the car drives, what you want it for and how it feels to you

You mean my run (the first sheet), or the last one, with 315NM? That one is from a member on the Dutch Bravo forum.
If you would like to know my readings, I sadly don't have them.

If I will do a rerun I will try to measure that to.

 

[LSP]

Well, if I'm honest, your English is very good!

Better than some English people even

Well, that's a nice compliment. Still, It's hard to discuss in an other language than your own. Love this forum btw. Very usefull and more active than the dutch version. Already had many great tips around here.

 

[LSP]

Well, if I'm honest, your English is very good!

Better than some English people even

So I promised to make a video about my acceleration. Here it is, from 80-160km/ph.

80-120 <4 seconds :slayer:
Also here the turbo whistle!



Ow, and after 130km/ph it was uphill. Will do it again on a flat road when I get the change.

 

[Fergie]

So 50mph to 75mph to 100mph.

Have you compared your speedo to a GPS? Mine under reads by about 3mph.

 

[danp12]

Here is the graph of my 1.9 mjet 150 just with a variable tuning box. The 160bhp is as completely standard and I believe these cars tend to produce that result on many rolling roads.

The car produced just shy of 200bhp with the box turned on. I have since removed both cats, but not yet put her back on the rollers. This has resulted in a wider power band and peak power is definitely higher.

The difference between having the box on and off is night and day. Not only is fuel economy better, but the car revs freer and accelerates so much quicker. It really is a pleasure to drive and passengers definitely feel the difference in torque

On the road it will eat up Focus Sts and will match 3.0d Audis

how long have you had the remap for and how is your gearbox doing? want to map mine but gbox issies?

 

[MikeG20]

I saw few days ago remapped 1.9 mjet 150 to 200Hp and soon after that destroyed gearbox

 

[danp12]

oh right ok thanks, so u wouldnt reccomend 200bhp then?

 

[Fergie]

oh right ok thanks, so u wouldnt reccomend 200bhp then?

Depends how you drive it...

Touchwood, I've had no problems at all, but I don't floor it that often and rarely launch either. I've had it for about a year and covered close to 20k (mostly motorway).

I've also got mine set up now so I can switch between 'power' and 'eco' mode on the fly.

 

[ysidfa]

Good figures from a 120 tjet with a 38. My GP t-jet made 144 standard with stock turbo (vl37) decat, and bmc filter. 151 after a map with 206lbsft of torque Cant wait to get a vl36/8 now

 

[danp12]

Depends how you drive it...

Touchwood, I've had no problems at all, but I don't floor it that often and rarely launch either. I've had it for about a year and covered close to 20k (mostly motorway).

I've also got mine set up now so I can switch between 'power' and 'eco' mode on the fly.

Yeah I don't do launch, I would mainly drive as I do now, witch is may e bit hard on perhaps 3rd and 4th low revs pull to close red line but apart from that I don't do mashing it :L, after all, it's a diesel haha, what's your tourque figure?