Technical FIAT 500X Don`t start again in cold temperature

[Dippan]

Hi Forum.

Last winter 2022 my Fiat500X did not start and the Workshop changed Battery and Spark Plugs and the Car worked again. Now one year later the same problem occurs. The car won`t start again and i have to take it to the workshop again!!. Does someone knows maybe what the problem is?.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Forum.

Last winter 2022 my Fiat500X did not start and the Workshop changed Battery and Spark Plugs and the Car worked again. Now one year later the same problem occurs. The car won`t start again and i have to take it to the workshop again!!. Does someone knows maybe what the problem is?.

If battery fixed it last time, maybe your battery isn't getting enough charge into it for extreme cold, whether through lack of use to fully charge battery, a weak generator not able to cope fully with all the winter loads, heater fan, lights rear screen heater etc. Do you have a large heavy duty battery?
Does the car start straight away with help from a set of jump leads from another car?
Has your battery voltage been tested?
If everything else is good, do you have a battery charger to keep your battery fully charged if possible where your car is parked overnight?

 

[Dippan]

Hi.

The car did not start with help from another car. I hope the workshop charge the battery with the Same spex, or else they are retarderad. I think it’s a weak generator, lights and everything works when we try to start. Or else maybe it’s the start engine that is dead.

It’s impossible that a 1 year old battery can be dead already?.

I have attached a movie so you can see how the car behaves. It’s filmed with iPhone so I think you can only see with an apple device.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi.

It’s impossible that a 1 year old battery can be dead already?.

Unfortunately I have proven this wrong.. Several times

If your charging system is LOW the battery will not keep up with the demands of Winter driving

If the charging system is HIGH it will boil off the fluid in the battery.. Then cannot pass power

Hopefully you have a poor connection somewhere.. Or a minor electrical drain

 

[bugsymike]

Hi.

The car did not start with help from another car. I hope the workshop charge the battery with the Same spex, or else they are retarderad. I think it’s a weak generator, lights and everything works when we try to start. Or else maybe it’s the start engine that is dead.

It’s impossible that a 1 year old battery can be dead already?.

I have attached a movie so you can see how the car behaves. It’s filmed with iPhone so I think you can only see with an apple device.

The battery doesn't sound like the problem if that is just your battery with no assistance.
Maybe a read on a diagnostic tool will give a better idea of the problem.
When I first heard it turning over, it was almost like low compression to me as it was so fast.
I have had a customer in the past with a very low mileage car that the only way it would start was by squirting oil down the plug holes to aid compression, it would then run fine all day once warm. Unfortunately the only fix in her case was a new engine.

 

[Dippan]

The battery doesn't sound like the problem if that is just your battery with no assistance.
Maybe a read on a diagnostic tool will give a better idea of the problem.
When I first heard it turning over, it was almost like low compression to me as it was so fast.
I have had a customer in the past with a very low mileage car that the only way it would start was by squirting oil down the plug holes to aid compression, it would then run fine all day once warm. Unfortunately the only fix in her case was a new engine.

Unfortunately I have proven this wrong.. Several times

If your charging system is LOW the battery will not keep up with the demands of Winter driving

If the charging system is HIGH it will boil off the fluid in the battery.. Then cannot pass power

Hopefully you have a poor connection somewhere.. Or a minor electrical drain

I hope its a small problem. I don`t like the workshop. It`s was a easy way to say its the battery because they want fast money. I dont think they did a proper investigation. I think something is draining the battery and i hope the workshop do a proper investigation. Maybe it was the key that was not coding with the car ?...

 

[bugsymike]

I hope its a small problem. I don`t like the workshop. It`s was a easy way to say its the battery because they want fast money. I dont think they did a proper investigation. I think something is draining the battery and i hope the workshop do a proper investigation. Maybe it was the key that was not coding with the car ?...

On your video the battery was turning the engine over well fast enough to start if all else good, as I mentioned earlier, almost too fast.
If it was the key you would have seen a lock sign or similar on the dashboard.
Do you have a friend with a diagnostic tool that can plug into the cars EOBD port to see if any error codes stored?
What is the history of the car, age , mileage, regularly serviced?
The one I mentioned before was a second owner Ford Fiesta, kept in a garage, with 30K miles from new and bought from the local Ford Dealer but still had low compression.
I also had a customer with a 3 cyl VW Polo they inherited from their daughter, it used a lot of engine oil and if allowed to get too low even when oil topped up it wouldn't start, until I did as mentioned on the other vehicle, many cars have high oil consumption due to their "short stroke" engine design,Toyota Yaris is another, where they get there power from higher revs, this means the piston rings need to seal really well to keep high compression or they will not start.
Are you able to do small jobs on your car or are you reliant on a garage?
Not recommended long term but have you tried using "EasyStart" spray, if it started right away it may be a clue or indication.

 

[Dippan]

On your video the battery was turning the engine over well fast enough to start if all else good, as I mentioned earlier, almost too fast.
If it was the key you would have seen a lock sign or similar on the dashboard.
Do you have a friend with a diagnostic tool that can plug into the cars EOBD port to see if any error codes stored?
What is the history of the car, age , mileage, regularly serviced?
The one I mentioned before was a second owner Ford Fiesta, kept in a garage, with 30K miles from new and bought from the local Ford Dealer but still had low compression.
I also had a customer with a 3 cyl VW Polo they inherited from their daughter, it used a lot of engine oil and if allowed to get too low even when oil topped up it wouldn't start, until I did as mentioned on the other vehicle, many cars have high oil consumption due to their "short stroke" engine design,Toyota Yaris is another, where they get there power from higher revs, this means the piston rings need to seal really well to keep high compression or they will not start.
Are you able to do small jobs on your car or are you reliant on a garage?
Not recommended long term but have you tried using "EasyStart" spray, if it started right away it may be a clue or indication.

Hi bugsymike

thank you for the info.

The car has hit 9800 km. It was served last year, changed oil and all the filter was changed and the service lamp was reseted.

The guy that was picking up the car didn’t get any wrong codes but I don’t think they got proper software so see it. Before this happens the car work perfectly. No sign of problem. Another thing I that they mention it smelled gas when they try to start the car.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi bugsymike

thank you for the info.

The car has hit 9800 km. It was served last year, changed oil and all the filter was changed and the service lamp was reseted.

The guy that was picking up the car didn’t get any wrong codes but I don’t think they got proper software so see it. Before this happens the car work perfectly. No sign of problem. Another thing I that they mention it smelled gas when they try to start the car.

Was the "gas smell " the only sign?
It's always harder when not by the car to test it, you can only hope the investigate correctly without spending too much of your money.

 

[Dippan]

Was the "gas smell " the only sign?
It's always harder when not by the car to test it, you can only hope the investigate correctly without spending too much of your money.

 

[Dippan]

Yeah in Sweden we got insurance company who is picking up cars that don’t start and drive them to the workstation. So they are not real repairer. He said that it was strange that the car did not start and he got a little bit gas smell from it. I don’t know why he said that and why that is important. But I hope the workstation that is fixing the car do a proper investigation and not just say it is the battery or spark plugs again. I will come back when they call me.

 

[s130]

Another possible confusing factor is that out in the cold the car will not start, even when the rescue truck arrives. So car goes back to workshop (cold), then mess around and try new battery by which time the car has warmed up and happily starts. The next cold snap problem comes back.

That battery sounds fine on turning over the engine so I think the problem lies elsewhere!

 

[Greasytrucker]

As bugsymike said it almost sounds like it’s turning over too fast, bit like when you turn an engine over with no plugs in which would indicate a compression problem. Strange one that

 

[Dippan]

I want to Thank you all for your replay.
I will reply to you all when the workshop has done diagnosis

 

[Dippan]

Hi all

The workshop said it was the spark plugs AGAIN that was very wet and they change the oil because they said that it was a lot of petrol in the oil.
I ask them what is the trigger of this problem. Why does the car behave like this. But like Greasytrucker said, i think the main problem is the oil compression. But the car works now.....

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all

The workshop said it was the spark plugs AGAIN that was very wet and they change the oil because they said that it was a lot of petrol in the oil.
I ask them what is the trigger of this problem. Why does the car behave like this. But like Greasytrucker said, i think the main problem is the oil compression. But the car works now.....

At least it is running now, but it doesn't sound like a long term solution to me, keep us posted.

 

[Greasytrucker]

If it’s fouled the plugs once it’s only gonna do it again you’d have thought. But yes, glad it’s running again

 

[Dippan]

Yes iam happy that the car is Running but they did a fast solution. I want to know heat triggers this Behavior, but yea Yeah. I keep you posted

 

[bugsymike]

Yes iam happy that the car is Running but they did a fast solution. I want to know heat triggers this Behavior, but yea Yeah. I keep you posted

Personally I would still like to know the compression readings of the engine were good, using a proper gauge in the spark plug holes getting a reading in pounds per square inch, I know some do a electronic diagnostic test but that is not the same, as to me it sounded as though the engine was turning over unnaturally fast as though poor compression.
Once I was satisfied with that, if the problem returns I would check other things.
For example years ago I had a customer whose engine would start straight away, but if then moved a few yards, switched off for a couple of minutes then tried to restart, the engine would flood , fouling the spark plugs and filling the cylinders with petrol. The fault turned out to be a known problem on that model of Nissan Micra, which the cure was a modified wire and temperature sensor and was in their "Service Bulletins" to the Dealers only.

 

[portland_bill]

The smell of petrol, and wet plugs, suggest fuel is getting in, but not igniting. That would also account for the fuel in the oil, as it passes the piston rings, washing the oil off the bores, making the situation worse.
Low compression is a possibility, so as said above, a proper compression check needs to be done.

The battery seems strong, so not the problem. One thing that shouted at me, or caused me to shout at the screen, is turn the lights off when starting. Starting takes a lot of power. The lights might just take enough of what is left to prevent proper ignition sparking. Spark plugs are not the cause, they are a victim. Needs a voltmeter on the battery while starting, to see how far the voltage drops.

Once running, how far does it travel? Do you do a short distance, stop and then restart? Such actions will cause excess fuelling, leading to oil wash off the bores, fuel in the oil, and eventually excess bore wear and low compression. get the compression test done.