Technical Fiat 500X automatic transmission problem

[culco40]

Hello!
I am a retired American in Poland. I brought over a 2016 Fiat 500X Lounge 2.4L, 9 speed 948TE automatic AWD with 45k miles. The care was running and driving perfect. I had a front end collision. The local Fiat dealer repaired the car and did a very good job. I had a automotive repair business in the U.S. during the 1990's. I know good and bad work. When I go the car back, it was showing a service transmission light on dash. The dealer knows nothing about the automatic transmission here. Automatic cars are rare in Poland. The dealer does not even have the software for an automatic. The car runs and drives well. However, sometimes, I will start the car and when I put it in reverse, the engines dies. After two or three attempts or raising the engine rpms and then putting in gear, the car reverses and then drive and shifts perfect. Sometimes I can drive 20 miles, make several stops and reverse with no problem. Then all of the sudden the engine dies. I need to add that the dealer removed the engine and transmission unit to repair the frame. They have no idea what to do. Private automatic transmission technicians do not have the software for this car. Even though cars have advanced a lot since the 90's, I can't help but feel that it is something simple because the car drives and shifts perfectly most of the time. Does anybody know if the TCM has to be reprogramed if disconnected or major collision? I also read that when a new TCM is installed, the two clutches have to be realigned. Does anybody have any thoughts on this problem?

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Yes, that could be problematic in PL

Even MultiEcuScan, which is the software compatible with most FIATs don't list this engine in the 500x:

However most of the engines list this automatic gearbox module:

This could be the one you've mentionned. Do you have more details on the gearbox in your car? Is it a ZF transmission?

The internet says it's the one:

If so, scanning for errors and the following adaptations are possible via MultiEcuScan:

eLearn lists the engine together with the gearbox in the 500x model

That's the inspection procedure they've created:

Another diagnosis via DTC steps are also available, but scanning with MES should be done first to proceed only with the encountered errors.

 

[culco40]

Hi!
Thanks for your reply. I am going to have to do more research. From what I have read on the internet, I have a ZF 948TE transmission.. The dealer just gave me 948TE based on my vin. A transmission specialist here is coming up with the same number as you did: 9HP48 948TE. He showed me his software and the problem seems to be that it shows the transmission but not the 2.4 engine. He only has options for all the engine options except the 2.4. He has the same as the list that is in your reply.. He connected to the car but could not access the ECU or TCM. I suspect it is because his software does not recognize the 2.4. He used to work at the dealer and said that the TCM probably needs to be reprogrammed after the collision. Monday I am going to the dealer again and show them the options for scanning that you mention. I went to the Mopar online store and they show six different transmission part numbers for that car. Having a U.S. version in Poland is problematic but worth it.

 

[the green vanper]

I thought it would be good to ask on the MultiEcuScan forum what others use to connect to the US cars. There's one entry saying to do the proxy alignment which requires connection to the Body module with another engine. I'd do the same.

But as you need to connect further, to engine and body, it's not a solution.

Jeep Renegade does not have the 2.4 engine neither listed in MES

According to the list of supported vehicles here the 2.4 engine is not supported by MultiEcuScan.

So, we're limited by that in Europe I'm affraid. Try checking on some US FIAT / Jeep forums what is the software they use for the US models.

eLearn name it 'Examiner' for all models.

 

[varesecrazy]

That's the Tigershark motor IIRC

Search that on here, somebody else imported one and posted info

 

[the green vanper]

Accordind to wikipedia:

 

[the green vanper]

To be sure I've checked in MES for the models listed in wikipedia and most of them is present, but none of them has the 2,4 engine available, so I assume there's no support. Could be that it uses another connection or data exchange protocol than MES.

 

[culco40]

Hi! I discovered that I can buy a professional diagnostic kit from the U.S. that has the U.S. Fiat 500X data. It seems like it will be a good investment for me. The car is like new and I plan on keeping it for a family car. Can you give me your opinion on the best diagnostic scanners?

 

[s130]

Hi! I discovered that I can buy a professional diagnostic kit from the U.S. that has the U.S. Fiat 500X data. It seems like it will be a good investment for me. The car is like new and I plan on keeping it for a family car. Can you give me your opinion on the best diagnostic scanners?

The question everybody asks and there is no simple answer.

First of all you have to decide is you want:

o PC with software & interface etc.
o Dedicated self contained tool like most garages use - essentially a dedicated tablet style PC or handheld device
o Mobile phone type of diagnostics

Next decision is vehicles/makes covered and each vehicle coverage.

In addition to MultiECUScan I also have MAXIECU V3.0 (https://maxiecu.eu/en/shop/) Supports many vehicles but is great in that you can have just ONE make vehicle support, two, three, .... or all. Single make is around £130 / 145 Euros.

It comes with a multiplexed blue tooth interface so no adapter cables are required. The software support is Windows and Android.

Your 500X is supported, 500X [334] 2.4 Tigershark 2016. To see what is supported go to https://maxiecu.eu/shop/9/add_module/ and then select the Functionality tab.

 

[culco40]

The question everybody asks and there is no simple answer.

First of all you have to decide is you want:

o PC with software & interface etc.
o Dedicated self contained tool like most garages use - essentially a dedicated tablet style PC or handheld device
o Mobile phone type of diagnostics

Next decision is vehicles/makes covered and each vehicle coverage.

In addition to MultiECUScan I also have MAXIECU V3.0 (https://maxiecu.eu/en/shop/) Supports many vehicles but is great in that you can have just ONE make vehicle support, two, three, .... or all. Single make is around £130 / 145 Euros.

It comes with a multiplexed blue tooth interface so no adapter cables are required. The software support is Windows and Android.

Your 500X is supported, 500X [334] 2.4 Tigershark 2016. To see what is supported go to https://maxiecu.eu/shop/9/add_module/ and then select the Functionality tab.

Hi! Thanks for your help. I would like to have a self contained version. I looked at the maxi link. When I go to functions and enter my 2016 500X and gearbox, it has several selections ZF 9HP variants 62, 63 and 64. I do not know which variant that I have. The Fiat dealers in the U.S. do not seem to know anything other than the part numbers that they use. Joe

 

[the green vanper]

Hi! Thanks for your help. I would like to have a self contained version. I looked at the maxi link. When I go to functions and enter my 2016 500X and gearbox, it has several selections ZF 9HP variants 62, 63 and 64. I do not know which variant that I have. The Fiat dealers in the U.S. do not seem to know anything other than the part numbers that they use. Joe

FIAT docs say it's 9HP 48. Have not seen anything higher. I have no idea what these numbers stand for.

 

[culco40]

I called three Fiat dealers in the U.S. They have no idea what ZF is or 9HP 48. All that they can tell me is that the vin number shows the transmission is a 948TE. It is like there is an alternate Fiat universe in the U.S. In the U.S., Fiat seems to be on under the part numbers of MOPAR. In Europe, Fiat seems to be based on Fiat part numbers. The U.S. and the European factions do not seem to even know they the other exists. I wonder if there is an actual number on the transmission? What Fiat documents are you looking at? Joe

 

[the green vanper]

ZF is the actual manufacturer of the gearbox. Strange an US dealer doesn't know that

In my post #2 the 3 screens from the top come from MultiEcuScan (the diagnostic tool that does not support the 2.4 engine), the last one from eLearn, the workshop documentation.

I'm thinking that connecting with MES to the gearbox module only should be possible. Same for clearing potential errors and making the adjustments.

I'd however avoid the proxy alignment, but it shouldn't be required.

 

[culco40]

Hello! I googled ZF and now everything makes sense. ZF is in South Carolina. ZF also has a facility in Wroclaw which is about 60km from. My 948TE is a ZF 9HP. You are saying that I can disconnect the TCM and connect the MultiEcuScan direct to the transmission? Keep in mind that I had an automotive repair shop in the 1990's working on cars from the 80's and early 90's. Cars have really changed! I still drive my 1998 Land Rover Discovery I. I bought the 500X for my wife and son. I wanted her to have the automatic and AWD. Do you have a repair shop in Silesia? Joe

 

[the green vanper]

ZF is a huge group, they produce different automotive components. Different factories will probably produce different components. There are 7 units in Poland.

Yes, cars have definitely changed since the 80's and 90's.

I love showing this picture. It's the inside of the body module of my 2011 Ducato. Normally it's the inside of the cab fusebox:

The port on the middle (on the bottom) is the OBD2 port which you connect the interface to. I don't think you could be able to connect any diagnostic tool directly to the gearbox module. Unless you're ZF's factory workshop and have specialized equipment.

But MultiEcuScan allows you to choose the module you're connecting to, so no need to connect to the engine module (which is not supported by MES).

The interface will connect to CAN and to the desired module as on the screenshot above. And that is what I'd start the diagnose with.

 

[culco40]

Ok! I am going to check this out. Maybe I will have success. I really appreciate your help! You have been more helpful than any of the Fiat dealers in the U.S. or Poland! I will let you know what happens. Joe

 

[the green vanper]

Dealers nowadays have a simple instruction:

check: if OK, then OK, 15 minutes later invoice for 150 PLN / USD / EUR.
if KO, then replace every part that could be failing, 6 months later invoice for 3000 EUR/USD...

 

[porta]

Ok! I am going to check this out. Maybe I will have success. I really appreciate your help! You have been more helpful than any of the Fiat dealers in the U.S. or Poland! I will let you know what happens. Joe

Get in touch with these folk, they seem to know about, and sell used bits, the 2.4 tigershark and its accompanying auto box

Pardon our interruption...

 

[culco40]

Dealers nowadays have a simple instruction:

check: if OK, then OK, 15 minutes later invoice for 150 PLN / USD / EUR.
if KO, then replace every part that could be failing, 6 months later invoice for 3000 EUR/USD...

This started in the 90's when OBDII came out. I had a guy with a Hyundai Scope at the dealer being told that his car computer codes showed sensors and the ECU needed to be replaced at a cost of $2500. He towed his car to me. I had it running perfect in 15 minutes and charged him $100. The dealer had put a new timing belt on the car and had the cam timing two teeth off. This made all kinds of sensors send codes to the computer.