CARS this time..
Does this mean another dose of
'Old Vauxhall' for us all ?
Does this mean another dose of
'Old Vauxhall' for us all ?
FCA..PSA platform sharing
- Thread starter varesecrazy
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FCA..PSA platform sharing
More likely it means the New CMP platform. So what is under the new 208, will be under the next C3, next Corsa e.t.c. It's also built with electrification in mind, so will bring Fiat into that game.
Also may mean 3 cylinder puretech engines which I like in the correct application..I.e. not 82bhp in a people carrier.
https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/corporate-en/cmp-modular-platform/
Also may mean 3 cylinder puretech engines which I like in the correct application..I.e. not 82bhp in a people carrier.
https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsroom/corporate-en/cmp-modular-platform/
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The Corsa/Adam looks supiciously like the Fiat 500 perhaps slightly fatted up, but very similar.
With the way things are going at this end of the market there's a good chance you'll have a choice between PSA or VAG for European cars. Theres talk of Ford doing a joint venture in Europe with VW as they aren't making money in Europe and haven't for a long time.
Engineering electric power trains and the new architecture that goes under them costs, and it's highly likely badge engineering is how companies will cover it.
I suppose the one hope is that these new platforms are designed to be so diverse you won't end up with a beige smear like the entirety of the current VW group output where everything is so alike that you might as well buy the cheapest that meets your needs.
Engineering electric power trains and the new architecture that goes under them costs, and it's highly likely badge engineering is how companies will cover it.
I suppose the one hope is that these new platforms are designed to be so diverse you won't end up with a beige smear like the entirety of the current VW group output where everything is so alike that you might as well buy the cheapest that meets your needs.
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Sad times. [emoji20] If everything starts being designed by VAG, there'll be a lot more people dozing off behind the wheel...
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Electric cars are coming along by leaps and bounds but unless governments sort out the power supply issues they'll go nowhere.
Local street cabling will struggle when everyone is doing an overnight charge. 70 Kw Hours is a one fat chunk of energy and soon enough that will be the least that's needed to get the job done. 1 Kw needs 4 amps at 240V (near enough) so a 70 KWH demand running for 10 hours would need 28 amps. OK on a per house basis but likely to challenge the infrastructure when everyone is doing it.
If we don't change how our power is generated, the electric cars will be hardly be any cleaner than the petrols we have replaced. I'm a big fan of new nuclear because it's safe and cheap and CO2 zero with a low waste profile but it wont solve the street cabling issues.
Local street cabling will struggle when everyone is doing an overnight charge. 70 Kw Hours is a one fat chunk of energy and soon enough that will be the least that's needed to get the job done. 1 Kw needs 4 amps at 240V (near enough) so a 70 KWH demand running for 10 hours would need 28 amps. OK on a per house basis but likely to challenge the infrastructure when everyone is doing it.
If we don't change how our power is generated, the electric cars will be hardly be any cleaner than the petrols we have replaced. I'm a big fan of new nuclear because it's safe and cheap and CO2 zero with a low waste profile but it wont solve the street cabling issues.
My understanding is to do business in Europe without incurring massive fines in future the overall average of emissions of all the cars sold by 2021 must be 95g/km or less. Hence the indecent scramble towards electric and hybrids to bring averages down. You also get "super credits" for cars less than 50g/km
Have a read of this: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en
Then you'll see why theres so many mergers e.t.c. going on, take special note of the section "pools acting jointly".
Basically they need to sell a reasonable number of electric cars or face large fines.
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I'm not a fan of the EU but this is where they are right. The only way to get behemoths like VW to toe the line is by serious sanctions when they don't. Saying that, official emissions tests and mpg figures have been a laughing stock for donkey's years and nothing got done (can't imagine why). They also managed to fudge the emissions figures. Did the regulators really know nothing about the dispariaty between factory claims and real world usage? Pull the other one.
The complex homologation rules are partly to blame, making even small changes very costly so changes don't get made (remember Norton bikes on about costs of even style changes to Henry Cole).
We also have rules that define how technology should be used rather than defining the end target. Rules on how exhaust catalysts must be used killed the Ford DI two strokes. In the 1990s, they had a fleet of test cars (Ka) which showed better mpg, better emissions, better reliability and less servicing. But in the end, even Ford had to give up and that's why the Ka had such a horrible old engine.
Konisegg (sp?) has an engine that has no mechanical cam shaft - its all controlled by computer. No throttle valve is needed and there's no need for a starter motor. Loads more power with better economy huge weight saving on the engine alone. What's happened to that?
The complex homologation rules are partly to blame, making even small changes very costly so changes don't get made (remember Norton bikes on about costs of even style changes to Henry Cole).
We also have rules that define how technology should be used rather than defining the end target. Rules on how exhaust catalysts must be used killed the Ford DI two strokes. In the 1990s, they had a fleet of test cars (Ka) which showed better mpg, better emissions, better reliability and less servicing. But in the end, even Ford had to give up and that's why the Ka had such a horrible old engine.
Konisegg (sp?) has an engine that has no mechanical cam shaft - its all controlled by computer. No throttle valve is needed and there's no need for a starter motor. Loads more power with better economy huge weight saving on the engine alone. What's happened to that?
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Personally I don’t dislike any auto company, I have and use 3 different manufacturers vehicles currently.
I do see the need for platform sharing and a new energy source as soon as possible. I don’t think fully electric vehicles are the Key.
I actually feel quite sorry for VW in as much as they were caught and totally vilified for what they did.
Renault? Peugeot?
The French government reported no wrong doing?
The EU? To allow Europe to grow and (allegedly I think) acompete with China
The EU must work, however it obviously doesn’t, sadly.
Can’t wait for the hybrid FIAT 500 though, sooner the better
I do see the need for platform sharing and a new energy source as soon as possible. I don’t think fully electric vehicles are the Key.
I actually feel quite sorry for VW in as much as they were caught and totally vilified for what they did.
Renault? Peugeot?
The French government reported no wrong doing?
The EU? To allow Europe to grow and (allegedly I think) acompete with China
The EU must work, however it obviously doesn’t, sadly.
Can’t wait for the hybrid FIAT 500 though, sooner the better
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This post might get a bit a tin foil hat...but I wouldn't be surprised if at Europe wide level it was decided the scandal should end at VW.
There's a huge amount of documentary evidence collected by independent sources both before and after diesel gate that clean diesel was myth up there with big foot. The Fiat 500x had emissions controls that literally turned off a minute after a standard emissions test ended...BMW 320d Efficient dynamics was found to emit 600% the claimed nox emissions in real world testing. Just two I remember but there are loads of similar examples.
There was a test done back at euro 4...it was found there'd been a 96% reduction harmful tail pipe emissions since the introduction of catalysts/euro standards on petrol vehicles. On diesel there had been no reduction when tested under real world conditions.
As a result going for full investigation would basically have dragged the whole of the European car industry through the mud. Easy way out, say it was VW..as there was no way the Americans would let it go and quietly drop the rest until WLTP came in and they could say it solved.
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I'm not a Washington post subscriber and don't wish to be one, but that's America investigating Ford judging by googling the wording.
Like I said the tin foil hat in me says it was decided not to put 2 bullets in the back of the head of the French and German and British economies by casting doubts on what is a major worldwide export.
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Of course they were/are all at it, but really, the regulators should use their teeth. Such stuff would never be allowed with pharmaceuticals or aircraft (for obvious reasons) but when we are talking about toxic levels of air pollution the car makers should not be allowed to simply take the mickey.
VW made huge play about their ultra economy cars but in reality they were not a lot better than anything else on the road and it seems they did it by fiddling the emissions.
Way back in the late 1980s when exhaust catalysts became mandatory (the issue of defining the tech rather than the end result) a car magazine ran two identical cars around Oxford with emissions analyers on the tail pipes. There was almost no difference but some of the time catalyst car was actually more dirty than the non cat car and it used 10% more fuel.
Overnight, cars went from pale grey tail pipes to jet black and fuel consumption went up.
We still have not got a handle on NOx emissions. Expect that to be the new emissions tax.
Automotive regulators have been very lax on enforcment and have actually supported entirely false emission testing regimes which existed only to make the car makers look clean. It would have been easy enough to take random cars off the line and run them with gas analysers. But the auto lobby hated that for obvious reasons so we got an EU fudge.
VW made huge play about their ultra economy cars but in reality they were not a lot better than anything else on the road and it seems they did it by fiddling the emissions.
Way back in the late 1980s when exhaust catalysts became mandatory (the issue of defining the tech rather than the end result) a car magazine ran two identical cars around Oxford with emissions analyers on the tail pipes. There was almost no difference but some of the time catalyst car was actually more dirty than the non cat car and it used 10% more fuel.
Overnight, cars went from pale grey tail pipes to jet black and fuel consumption went up.
We still have not got a handle on NOx emissions. Expect that to be the new emissions tax.
Automotive regulators have been very lax on enforcment and have actually supported entirely false emission testing regimes which existed only to make the car makers look clean. It would have been easy enough to take random cars off the line and run them with gas analysers. But the auto lobby hated that for obvious reasons so we got an EU fudge.
Hi,
I’m not suggesting you should subscribe, you don’t actally have/need to.I’m sorry.
I was just pointing out that there are other Auto manufacturers in the world who are being fined for wrong doing.
Ford are also in trouble for supplying automatic gearboxes which are not up to the job on Fiesta and Focus models too.
I’m sorry, I actually stumbled upon this thread by accident whilst I was looking for help with my FIAT 500.
I’m not suggesting you should subscribe, you don’t actally have/need to.I’m sorry.
I was just pointing out that there are other Auto manufacturers in the world who are being fined for wrong doing.
Ford are also in trouble for supplying automatic gearboxes which are not up to the job on Fiesta and Focus models too.
I’m sorry, I actually stumbled upon this thread by accident whilst I was looking for help with my FIAT 500.
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I think the issue is that regulatory fines against auto manufacturers are the exception rather than the rule. If we had genuinely achievable but rigorous testing regimes there should be less reason to fine anyone. But the regimes in use are neither rigorous nor real world (standard emissions test routines for everyone) and we now know are easy to fiddle. I cant believe the emissions and mpg data fiddling was not common knowledge within the industry.
And now the most recent studies claim diesels Nox emissions are nearly nothing and can be reduced to less then a equivalent petrol car
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If so, why has the auto industry not solved the problem with diesels?
When the adblue and particulates filters do work, it takes only a few issues at the upstream side of the engine to mess up the whole lot. Too much soot kills the system and costs to fix are huge.
When the adblue and particulates filters do work, it takes only a few issues at the upstream side of the engine to mess up the whole lot. Too much soot kills the system and costs to fix are huge.
