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Technical Engine mount

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Technical Engine mount

Franko500

Franko500

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Just doing a general check over and noticed if I lift up and down on the exhaust, the engine rocks enough for the starter to knock on the heater tube that is bolted to the floor.
Also I have a fair bit of play on the engine mount for up and down movement. Should this be adjusted with shims & by how much?
I did try the updated spring but it caused so much vibration through the body the wife wouldn't get in it.
This is a 126 650 engine with starter on the side. If I lower the engine using s block it will hit the pulley on the lower engine cover.
Any suggestions?
 
Are you using the modified heater tube to miss the clash with the starter motor?
I bashed the be'jesus out of mine so it didn't clash - but you can buy a modified version
Check the Ricambio site to see what I mean.......
 
Yes I bought the 126 model that has a more professional look with the area bashed in with a certain amount of precision. I think like the 500r they used the larger and more basic spring set up on the modified rear panel. Maybe to drop the engine more?
 
You are right Sean the R had a similar engine mount setup to the 126. The rear cross panel has a big square pillar welded on top of it that the spring attached to. I have all the bits in a box in the garage, I will dig it out and see if I can make any sense of it?
 
I have a few of them as well but I used the original 500 set up. Just can't find any info on its adjustment though. I'm sure Tom, David or Chris must know about these. Must be past there bed time, or watching the Portugal kicking Wales butt football match.
 
ZZZZZZZZ

Awake now :D

I've attached photos of the 126 rear engine mount. I had a rusting Niki 650 (aka Fiat 126) that I used for parts and I kept the engine mount so if you need any more photos let me know and I'll retrieve it from the shed. Not sure if they are adjustable though.

Also attached photos of a lowering kit. These are available commercially though you could just as well make your own. If you fit one, you'll need longer studs.

Got a day off, so I'm off to the beach :)

Chris
 

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Franko500 said:
Cheers Chris,
However I am referring to the original 500 set up. How much up and down movement should there be? What's the point of the shims?
Click to expand...

Sean, those shims don't seem to do anything and they aren't all that thick anyway; they've always puzzled me.

When you fit the engine/gearbox, the rubber mountings on the cradle which supports the gearbox end always seem to find their own position in the slotted holes. I have wondered, in the factory if they used these elongated slots to allow the inclination of the assembly to be adjusted. Between that adjustment and the removal or insertion of shims you could achieve a bit of realignment.

I'm sure you will have replaced the square, rubber blocks but in the old days I had case of the rubbers coming free from the backing and one set going very.........rubbery:D with oil. That was with ORIGINAL parts.:eek: Both these things caused wobbly engine syndrome (WES) and can also make for juddery take-off.

At first I didn't replace those "top-hat"-shaped rubbers in the aluminium engine-mounting. My engine didn't have full-blown WES but was noticeably more steady when I did replace them.
BRA_8981 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
BRA_8983 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
I keep meaning to adjust the steel, heater-duct on my car, which is screwed through slotted-tabs to the underfloor because it is virtuallly touching the exhaust. Even at that everything is tight enough with the engine-mountings so that I don't get any knocking. So I think that the untamed rocking of the engine that I have experienced in the distant past and which gets reported here ocasionally is not a feature of a properly setup engine. How to achieve that was amatter of luck for me so you will have to be the one to work it out for us. (y)
 
The only banging I had, was as per Chris, with the pulley hitting the underside of the mount on big bumps/drain holes etc. Solved this with a couple of thick washers as it didn't need lowering by as much the spacer blocks available provide.

Oh I did have another knock. This was only when you switched the engine off and was the exhaust tapping on the exhaust shield. Solved by moving the exhaust shield further back. Not sure if everyone else gets this maximum rock when you switch the engine off. Maybe the extra gearbox mount fitted to later 650's stops/reduces this?? I don't have one of these fitted yet. Opinions??

cheers, Steve
 
My research garnered that for performance installations - it was best practice to fit a 500R rear panel as it has the "improved" mounting and to fit the gearbox support.
I have the support bracket and will see how things go.
I have 18mm lowering block, coil overs and a 5 speed box - and have not yet fitted the engine surround.
 
Guys,

while we have the brains trust assembled here can I chip in? I have a 69F with a standard 500cc motor. It has always had a shudder / thumping on take off and from first to second. On hill starts it can sometimes make it jump out of first gear. (Try a hill start releasing the handbrake and holding the gear stick forward at the same time.)

I always thought it was the exhaust pipe hitting the rear brace panel. When I did my rebuild I used two different 'old' engine springs and then a new one. Last week I added a home made 6mm spacer to drop the engine slightly. Made no difference that I can tell.

From reading this thread, I am now wondering if it is the gearbox itself thumping the bottom of the car so I have to try and investigate that somehow.

Your collective thoughts would be appreciated.

Joe R
 
Joe,
there is not a great deal of clearance between the gearbox and the floor so it may well be hitting.
I can lift my engine up a fair way whilst still attached by the rear mount.
I think there may be too much clearance on the rubber buffers. possibly need a new one? not sure how much additional weight there is between the 500 & 650 set up so this may be my issue.
Unfortunately the 1st gear problem is probably down to a lack of synchro on 1st gear. Mine also pops out of 1st gear at the odd embarrassing moment. The Synchro holds the gear in place. Make sure your gear stick linkage is not adjusted incorrectly. it may not be allowing the 1st gear to full engage.
Have you checked the condition of your 1st & primary gears? they are prone to damage on the teeth due to no synchro and drivers attempting to find 1st gear whilst moving.
 
If there is a continuing problem with the gear-box hitting the underside of the car, it might be worthwhile putting a spacer between the gear-box cross member and the bodywork---something like an ice-hockey puck (ie a disc of hard rubber). Before removing the cross-member retaining bolts, give a good spray with a releasing agent (WD40 etc) and clean the threads as well as possible. I would also check the position of the gear-box mounts and make sure that they are in the lowest position on the cross-member. I will check the movement on my car tomorrow (been looking after the grandchildren this evening) and see how much movement there is. I would also concur with 'Fiat 500', replacement of the 'top-hat' bushes in the rear mount can only help the situation.
With regard to the problem of the gear-box jumping out of 1st, (a) NONE of the air-cooled (500 or 126) have synchro on 1st gear and, (b) it is possible to adjust the gear-change to a degree. The gear-lever 'box' is held by 2 bolts (13mm head size) that go through slotted holes on the off-side of the central tunnel alongside the gear-lever. To give more movement into 1st gear, the 'box' has to be moved (according to the 'book of words') SLIGHTLY forwards. Don't forget, this adjustment will, to a degree, affect ALL the gear selection.
for reasons that I won't bore you with, I had to put a thin (no more than 2mm) spacer between the car body and the rear cross-member---that pulled the engine back far enough that it affected the gear-change and had to adjust the Gear-lever support 'box'.
banghead.gif
smile.gif
 
Greetings, I have to say that I have had the " knock or thud " from the back end when letting out the clutch in a spirited fashion!! And thought that it was the gearbox coming into contact with the underside. My rear mount is worn and needs the rubbers replacing, but having replaced the spring with a 'sport' item from VDL the problem has largely gone away. I think that I will replace all the mounting rubbers at some stage to help too.

Ian.
 
Ah no schematic needed
It bolts onto gearbox cross member and then drill a hole through floor pan into central tunnel ( under inspection panel)
And Bobs your dads brother
 
Sean. I had the same issue when I swapped to a 650 engine. Replaced the rubbers in the mount, uprated the spring and fitted a lowering spacer. Dimension of the spring is 7.5mm wire 65mm long
 
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