Hi all First time here, I have a Fiat Ducato based motorhome model 2.8 diesel engine and when I turn the lights on to dipped beam the engine cuts out also the hazard warning lights also cuts the engine, when I turn on the heater blowers the temp and fuel gauges act in a erratic manner and the clock goes back to zero. Has anyone had the same symptoms?
Technical engine cuts out when lights are turned on
- Thread starter scrantic
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Technical engine cuts out when lights are turned on
Communicator
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Scrantic,
Welcome to the Forum. Unfortunately, you seem to have overlooked the welcome post at the top of the Ducato page.
The Fiat 2.8 litre engine was made in two major variants. Firstly the 2.8 idTD (injection direct turbo diesel) upto 2000, and subsequently the 2.8JTD, until mid 2006. The idTD has a mechanical injection system with individual pipes to each injector, whereas the later JTD has a common rail system with electronically controlled injectors. The JTD can be further subdivided into xxx230, and xxx244 (post 2004?, where xxx244 are the first six characters of the VIN eg ZFA244......... The VIN must be on the vehicle plate, and will also be shown on the registration document V5C.
As stated in the "Welcome" post please supply the missing information, so that specific advice may be given.
Welcome to the Forum. Unfortunately, you seem to have overlooked the welcome post at the top of the Ducato page.
The Fiat 2.8 litre engine was made in two major variants. Firstly the 2.8 idTD (injection direct turbo diesel) upto 2000, and subsequently the 2.8JTD, until mid 2006. The idTD has a mechanical injection system with individual pipes to each injector, whereas the later JTD has a common rail system with electronically controlled injectors. The JTD can be further subdivided into xxx230, and xxx244 (post 2004?, where xxx244 are the first six characters of the VIN eg ZFA244......... The VIN must be on the vehicle plate, and will also be shown on the registration document V5C.
As stated in the "Welcome" post please supply the missing information, so that specific advice may be given.
Thanks for that I did read the welcome post but was unsure how to find which engine I had and it was an electrical fault. Point noted and I will get the info and try again. Thanks for the info to where to find this required specs.much appreciated Graham.
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Sounds like this one could be tricky. But there again, it could be breathtakingly simple. Could be a bad earth somewhere in the chain, check engine to body earths, major earths in wiring harness, and look for poor or corroded connectors and terminals as you go. Try running additional earthing wires between key items to a known good earth. That being a very common thing on these, as witness the many threads about electrical issues. Unfortunately these can be compounded by the moho builders alterations and disregard for common sense at times. I suspect there will not be any major component failures involved, all being well.
Communicator
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Graham,
My Ducato is a 2006 x244, so most of the info that I have relates to that.
My main source is Fiat eLearn, in which I have detected several errors, but the following should be correct.
I am puzzled as to how the engine manages to start, given your symptoms.
The common point for your symptoms is the engine bay fuse & relay board (fusebox), and its supply from the fusebox mounted on the battery +ve terminal. A faulty alternator, and or battery should also be considered.
I have considered an ignition switch fault, but the main currents for the headlamps, and heater fan do not pass through the ignition switch, also the hazard flashers do not require the ignition switch.
To eliminate the battery and alternator, check the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine running. It should be over 14.0V.
The supply to the engine bay fusebox is fused at 160A.
Disconnect the starter battery negative before working in this box.
Also since the vehicle is a motorhome consider isolating other poosible supplies such as solar panels, and any starter battery maintainer (B2B), as well as mains charger if on EHU.
The the engine bay fusebox has a roughly square cover and is towards the LHS of the vehicle near the air filter. The cover is retained by two M5 (8mm) nuts. I use a nut spinner for these, as the rear one is partially obstructed, and easily dropped.
With the cover off, examine the tightness of the nut on the M6 stud (10mm spanner) on the side towards the air filter. The thick red cable here is the supply from the 160A fuse at the battery positive terminal.
With battery negative reconnected, check voltage between supply stud and chassis (the M5 cover studs do not connect with the chassis). Try with heater fan running at full speed
Look for any sign of corrosion on fuse and relay terminals.
The fuse/relay board may be unclipped after again disconnecting the battery negative. Check security of connectors on back of the board.
Any obvious wiring damage?. I am thinking mice.
Ocwobio has suggested earth connections but except for the ECU earth it is difficult to find any linking between the symptoms. The ECU is located inside the LH front wing, near the air cleaner. The earth if I remember correctly is low down at the front corner of the wing, with access from underneath. (My hypothesis in this instance is the ECU struggling at minimum voltage, and being tipped below that, but why should this cause the instrument panel symptoms?)
Sorry if I have been preaching to the converted in some areas, but I hope that some of the above may help.
Please keep the forum posted, as it may help others.
Alan
My Ducato is a 2006 x244, so most of the info that I have relates to that.
My main source is Fiat eLearn, in which I have detected several errors, but the following should be correct.
I am puzzled as to how the engine manages to start, given your symptoms.
The common point for your symptoms is the engine bay fuse & relay board (fusebox), and its supply from the fusebox mounted on the battery +ve terminal. A faulty alternator, and or battery should also be considered.
I have considered an ignition switch fault, but the main currents for the headlamps, and heater fan do not pass through the ignition switch, also the hazard flashers do not require the ignition switch.
To eliminate the battery and alternator, check the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine running. It should be over 14.0V.
The supply to the engine bay fusebox is fused at 160A.
Disconnect the starter battery negative before working in this box.
Also since the vehicle is a motorhome consider isolating other poosible supplies such as solar panels, and any starter battery maintainer (B2B), as well as mains charger if on EHU.
The the engine bay fusebox has a roughly square cover and is towards the LHS of the vehicle near the air filter. The cover is retained by two M5 (8mm) nuts. I use a nut spinner for these, as the rear one is partially obstructed, and easily dropped.
With the cover off, examine the tightness of the nut on the M6 stud (10mm spanner) on the side towards the air filter. The thick red cable here is the supply from the 160A fuse at the battery positive terminal.
With battery negative reconnected, check voltage between supply stud and chassis (the M5 cover studs do not connect with the chassis). Try with heater fan running at full speed
Look for any sign of corrosion on fuse and relay terminals.
The fuse/relay board may be unclipped after again disconnecting the battery negative. Check security of connectors on back of the board.
Any obvious wiring damage?. I am thinking mice.
Ocwobio has suggested earth connections but except for the ECU earth it is difficult to find any linking between the symptoms. The ECU is located inside the LH front wing, near the air cleaner. The earth if I remember correctly is low down at the front corner of the wing, with access from underneath. (My hypothesis in this instance is the ECU struggling at minimum voltage, and being tipped below that, but why should this cause the instrument panel symptoms?)
Sorry if I have been preaching to the converted in some areas, but I hope that some of the above may help.
Please keep the forum posted, as it may help others.
Alan
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Today, I have the exact same issue. Engine starts fine but as soon as main lights turned on the engine died. (2.8 JTD I believe)
Was on the road at the time, so pulled over and removed fuse box cover and gave everything a real good wiggle. After a few attempts, engine would still run after main lights switched on.
So got home (phew) but will tomorrow with daylight try to find the dodgy piece of wiring/corrosion that I suspect it could be.
Was on the road at the time, so pulled over and removed fuse box cover and gave everything a real good wiggle. After a few attempts, engine would still run after main lights switched on.
So got home (phew) but will tomorrow with daylight try to find the dodgy piece of wiring/corrosion that I suspect it could be.
Did anyone solve this problem. I have something similar. When I turn on the headlights I loose coms with the Instrument Panel and get a bunch of CAN bus errors. If I clear all codes, then turn on the headlights I will simultaneously get codes for shorted headlights ( they still work fine ), CAN bus errors and various modules will loose coms.
Communicator
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SailorBob,
Does your vehicle have LED, or Tungsten filament headlight bulbs, and are they OEM specification?
Does your vehicle have LED, or Tungsten filament headlight bulbs, and are they OEM specification?
Mine is a 2010 Van w/ 2.3L Turbo Diesel manual transmission.
Regular filament bulbs. OEM spec, no idea, but somehow doubt it. Van is second hand.
The error I get immediately after turning on the lights is:
The lights work just fine as far as I can tell.
Usually, but not always, I will see CAN bus and node errors simultaneously or shortly after turning on the lights. However, after looking over my report history for the vehicle I see sometimes it happens without turning on the lights. Here is an example ( although the errors I get can vary by quite a bit ):
Now is where it starts getting weird. Even when all those CAN bus and node errors show up the vehicle drives just fine. These issue have been present for a few years with it occasionally refusing to start for no reason, but shortly after starting just fine, again for no clear reason.
Just recently, the dash and I think also the maybe the engine computer will go dead in the middle of driving. Additionally, sometimes the dash indicators won't come on in the KOEO / key run position and when I turn the key absolutely nothing will happen. Then after a few minutes for no apparent reason the dash lights will come on and the vehicle will start as if nothing happened, and there won't be any error codes in the computer.
I don't know to what extent all these things are related. I also have a third party security system by Ituran. They claim their system is not related to my problems. I mentioned this in a different post about the low quality of the splicing they did installing their system.
Basically, I can't depend on the vehicle right now, and no electrician I've spoken to will even agree to work on it because they all say these Ducatos are a nightmare from an electrical point of view.
One electrician I spoke with said take it to Fiat ( even though according to him they're incompetent ) and they can try swapping in different computers to see if that's the problem.
Any ideas where to begin? I have the x250 training manual and eLearn but it's a little of a pain to find info in.
Regular filament bulbs. OEM spec, no idea, but somehow doubt it. Van is second hand.
The error I get immediately after turning on the lights is:
The lights work just fine as far as I can tell.
Usually, but not always, I will see CAN bus and node errors simultaneously or shortly after turning on the lights. However, after looking over my report history for the vehicle I see sometimes it happens without turning on the lights. Here is an example ( although the errors I get can vary by quite a bit ):
Now is where it starts getting weird. Even when all those CAN bus and node errors show up the vehicle drives just fine. These issue have been present for a few years with it occasionally refusing to start for no reason, but shortly after starting just fine, again for no clear reason.
Just recently, the dash and I think also the maybe the engine computer will go dead in the middle of driving. Additionally, sometimes the dash indicators won't come on in the KOEO / key run position and when I turn the key absolutely nothing will happen. Then after a few minutes for no apparent reason the dash lights will come on and the vehicle will start as if nothing happened, and there won't be any error codes in the computer.
I don't know to what extent all these things are related. I also have a third party security system by Ituran. They claim their system is not related to my problems. I mentioned this in a different post about the low quality of the splicing they did installing their system.
Basically, I can't depend on the vehicle right now, and no electrician I've spoken to will even agree to work on it because they all say these Ducatos are a nightmare from an electrical point of view.
One electrician I spoke with said take it to Fiat ( even though according to him they're incompetent ) and they can try swapping in different computers to see if that's the problem.
Any ideas where to begin? I have the x250 training manual and eLearn but it's a little of a pain to find info in.
Last edited:
Communicator
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I am not an expert in CAN bus systems, as luckily my x244 does not have it. However it seems that a degraded engine block earth strap can cause many problems with x250 models. Perhaps it may be worth replacing the strap, or at least trying a jump lead from engine block to a clean chassis earthpoint. Unless you can safely secure such a lead, you may be limited to stationary tests, but switching the light on and off with the engine running may reveal something.
What I was thinking, before you mentioned that not all of the problems were associated with switching the lights, was as follows. Filament lamps draw a large surge current at the instant of switching on. This will be several times the nominal current as indicated by the bulb wattage rating. (Resistance is proportional to absolute temperature. Ambient is roughly 300K, and but halogen bulbs operate at about 5000K. Rough division says 16 times nominal instantaneously.) If you couple this with a possible bad connection in the engine bay fusebox which is a common point, there is the possibility of a corresponding instantaneous drop in voltage to the BCM, which it may not like.
I must emphasise that this is little more than a guess, but it would fit with post #6 in this thread.
As you seem to desperate for a cure you may find this thread, interesting.
What I was thinking, before you mentioned that not all of the problems were associated with switching the lights, was as follows. Filament lamps draw a large surge current at the instant of switching on. This will be several times the nominal current as indicated by the bulb wattage rating. (Resistance is proportional to absolute temperature. Ambient is roughly 300K, and but halogen bulbs operate at about 5000K. Rough division says 16 times nominal instantaneously.) If you couple this with a possible bad connection in the engine bay fusebox which is a common point, there is the possibility of a corresponding instantaneous drop in voltage to the BCM, which it may not like.
I must emphasise that this is little more than a guess, but it would fit with post #6 in this thread.
As you seem to desperate for a cure you may find this thread, interesting.
I already replaced the strap 
. I was having starter problems last year and that was one of multiple issues I found. You can see my old ground strap and starting problems here if you like.
I'll take a look at that link and get back to you.
. I was having starter problems last year and that was one of multiple issues I found. You can see my old ground strap and starting problems here if you like.I'll take a look at that link and get back to you.
Communicator
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SailorBob,
A warning. There is a procedure for disconnecting the battery for some later Ducatoes, and I think that it will apply to your x250. Basically switch off ignition, close all doors and windows. Wait one minute to allow computers to shut down, before disconnecting battery. See Drivers Manual for confirmation.
A warning. There is a procedure for disconnecting the battery for some later Ducatoes, and I think that it will apply to your x250. Basically switch off ignition, close all doors and windows. Wait one minute to allow computers to shut down, before disconnecting battery. See Drivers Manual for confirmation.
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Hi Sailorbob
I remember answering your queries about the third party security system, about 4 weeks ago.
The standard of workmanship looked far below what it should be. I suggest you disconnect this security system (even if only temporarily) and re-make any damage to the vehicle wiring. Then drive around for a week or two and see if you are still getting strange behaviour.
It is possible that even though the security system "works", it may be affecting the timing of power being applied to the various vehicle sytems. If the ECU and body computer do not see power at the right places and at exactly the right times immediately after key-on, they may register an error or misbehave. This is just a theory at the moment.
I remember answering your queries about the third party security system, about 4 weeks ago.
The standard of workmanship looked far below what it should be. I suggest you disconnect this security system (even if only temporarily) and re-make any damage to the vehicle wiring. Then drive around for a week or two and see if you are still getting strange behaviour.
It is possible that even though the security system "works", it may be affecting the timing of power being applied to the various vehicle sytems. If the ECU and body computer do not see power at the right places and at exactly the right times immediately after key-on, they may register an error or misbehave. This is just a theory at the moment.
Crossingkeeper
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As the faults are seemingly random and electrical it might be worth checking for chafing/corrosion in the loom leading to the ECU. There is some information in this thread:
www.fiatforum.com
X250 money saving tip | FIAT Ducato
A little advice. Take out your passenger headlight, Unbolt the ECU plastic cover, One of the main Wiring looms to the ECU is cable tied from factory to the metal ECU mount, Cut this cable tie Check wiring hasn't worn through from chaffing against metal bracket I've just had a new turbo...
www.fiatforum.com
So I took out the headlight and check all the looms. The problematic part of the looms are encased in a kind of clothy mesh thing and there is no evidence of wear through were it contacts the ABS or that metal tube. Part of another loom the wires are completely exposed, but no evidence of damage to those wires...As the faults are seemingly random and electrical it might be worth checking for chafing/corrosion in the loom leading to the ECU. There is some information in this thread:
X250 money saving tip | FIAT Ducato
A little advice. Take out your passenger headlight, Unbolt the ECU plastic cover, One of the main Wiring looms to the ECU is cable tied from factory to the metal ECU mount, Cut this cable tie Check wiring hasn't worn through from chaffing against metal bracket I've just had a new turbo...
Next thing I'll head under the dash and start looking around there....
Fiat Ducato Recalls | Regit
Check if your Fiat Ducato has been recalled. Regit keeps you safe and legal.
www.regit.cars
This is a recall notice for Ducatos made in 2014-2015, but it sounds so similar to my problem that I'm going to check this out as a possibility also.
Its not unusual for a 'conversion' like a Motorhome to be a LOT older in manufacture than the UK registration date
Do you know your vehicles original build date.. it might fall in that window..
VIN should be listed on recalls
Do you know your vehicles original build date.. it might fall in that window..
VIN should be listed on recalls
Communicator
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The vehicle has obviously been operating in a dusty enviroment, and the cover from the engine bay fusebox is missing. Dust can cause electrical problems. Given the symptoms reported, and that this fusebox is a common point, it would be sensible to either strip and thoroughly clean the fusebox, or alternatively replace it. Used boxes are available on Ebay, but do check the part number if purchasing. Cleaning a similar fusebox is described here.
Communicator
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If this happens the engine the engine will crank, but not start. It is one of my worst nightmares. The quoted codes are probably from the same basic fault. Possibly in the current circumstances it may be that insufficient power is reaching the BCM. See my previous post #19 above.
