Technical ELD Unavailable etc, where's the brake switch?

[Panda IIs]

Not correct 100% controlled electronically

So the milk bottle tops on the rear of my TA 4x4 provide the same (or possibly greater) braking force as the ventilated dinner plate discs on the front even allowing for weight distribution?

 

[Haptron]

A new battery hasn’t helped, anyone have any other ideas for ways to fix it that don’t involve considerable amounts of money?

 

[Panda IIs]

A new battery hasn’t helped, anyone have any other ideas for ways to fix it that don’t involve considerable amounts of money?

Are you able to check that the alternator is charging? I believe this will be a so called "smart" alternator so possibly not as straight forward as checking the volts across the battery with the engine running. Should be of the order of 14volts.

Also a poor earth strap between body and engine (has been mentioned above I think)? If you have a set of jump leads try using one to connect the NEGATIVE terminal on the battery to the engine and then perhaps the body if you can find some bare metal. DO NOT GET THIS WRONG Does this eliminate the warnings?

The new battery is the correct stop/start type (AGM I believe)?

 

[Haptron]

Are you able to check that the alternator is charging? I believe this will be a so called "smart" alternator so possibly not as straight forward as checking the volts across the battery with the engine running. Should be of the order of 14volts.

Also a poor earth strap between body and engine (has been mentioned above I think)? If you have a set of jump leads try using one to connect the NEGATIVE terminal on the battery to the engine and then perhaps the body if you can find some bare metal. DO NOT GET THIS WRONG Does this eliminate the warnings?

The new battery is the correct stop/start type (AGM I believe)?

Alternator is fine, I’ll check the earth.

The new battery is start stop but EFB (which is what I could find online telling me it’s suitable).

All these warnings just randomly came on one drive, (start stop also hasn’t worked since I bought it and previous owner didn’t use it).

 

[Panda IIs]

Alternator is fine, I’ll check the earth.

The new battery is start stop but EFB (which is what I could find online telling me it’s suitable).

All these warnings just randomly came on one drive, (start stop also hasn’t worked since I bought it and previous owner didn’t use it).

Well I'm out at this point; all my experience with a '63 plate 4x4 TA points to low volts (and indeed with other marques - specifically an alternator failure on a VW where each of the equivalent warnings came up as I trudged across Europe - bar the alternator warning which came last!!).

My stop start worked for a while with a brand new battery and replacement volts sensor (found on the negative battery post, which is also disproportionately expensive given its size and function!) but stopped once the routine short commuter drive kicked in and took its toll.

Was the original battery the OEM one (FIAT/ALFA badged)? Was that AGM?? Not sure flooded batteries are used generally for stop/start but I don't have that specific knowledge to say for sure. I do try to find a couple of sources to confirm stuff I read online...

 

[Haptron]

Well I'm out at this point; all my experience with a '63 plate 4x4 TA points to low volts (and indeed with other marques - specifically an alternator failure on a VW where each of the equivalent warnings came up as I trudged across Europe - bar the alternator warning which came last!!).

My stop start worked for a while with a brand new battery and replacement volts sensor (found on the negative battery post, which is also disproportionately expensive given its size and function!) but stopped once the routine short commuter drive kicked in and took its toll.

Was the original battery the OEM one (FIAT/ALFA badged)? Was that AGM?? Not sure flooded batteries are used generally for stop/start but I don't have that specific knowledge to say for sure. I do try to find a couple of sources to confirm stuff I read online...

Yes original was EFB.

The only thing I’ve had is replaced the rear disks a few months ago,I’ve seen a couple of mentions of sensors causing potential issues but I can’t see anything I may have touched. Really not sure what else to test.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Could be anything which is why you read the code

It is critical, no ABS, no electronic brake distribution

Hit the brakes hard will cause the rear to lock up and the car to swap ends


Fiat advise is to drive it carefully to a dealer

Agree. Rear lock up WILL occur as well as absence of ABS. We had an ABS issue and the car was a handful to say the least and NOT fit for normal use.

 

[Panda IIs]

Yes original was EFB.

The only thing I’ve had is replaced the rear disks a few months ago,I’ve seen a couple of mentions of sensors causing potential issues but I can’t see anything I may have touched. Really not sure what else to test.

Well its feasible that a wheel speed sensor has been upset with the rear rotor swap (which is a pain in the backside job but just needs patience) but these are just magnetic sensors so typically either work or don't.

One thought about the brake switch (and apologies if I'm teaching you to "suck eggs..") they sense when open and closed so just because the brake lights come on with the pedal depressed doesn't mean it is ok. Its a 14GBP part.

 

[Panda IIs]

Agree. Rear lock up WILL occur as we as absence of ABS. We had an ABS issue and the car was a handful to say the least and NOT fit for normal use.

Well I sit corrected, and will watch out. Thanks

 

[Haptron]

Well its feasible that a wheel speed sensor has been upset with the rear rotor swap (which is a pain in the backside job but just needs patience) but these are just magnetic sensors so typically either work or don't.

One thought about the brake switch (and apologies if I'm teaching you to "suck eggs..") they sense when open and closed so just because the brake lights come on with the pedal depressed doesn't mean it is ok. Its a 14GBP part.

Yeah I wouldn’t have expected a sensor to have suddenly changed, I’m not even sure where they are as I didn’t see any.
I’ve tried with a new brake switch also and still no luck. Genuinely baffled about what to do next.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Alternator is fine, I’ll check the earth.

The new battery is start stop but EFB (which is what I could find online telling me it’s suitable).

All these warnings just randomly came on one drive, (start stop also hasn’t worked since I bought it and previous owner didn’t use it).

EFB is correct battery

 

[Panda IIs]

Yeah I wouldn’t have expected a sensor to have suddenly changed, I’m not even sure where they are as I didn’t see any.
I’ve tried with a new brake switch also and still no luck. Genuinely baffled about what to do next.

On the rear hub they sit in the top; if you did the rotor swap yourself there is a risk they get damaged (if not removed) whilst you try to prevent the hub rotating when freeing the calliper carrier.

I have had an ELD error with a puncture (wheel speed sensor kind of related) the different (rolling) wheel diameter threw the problem I guess.

 

[koalar]

So the milk bottle tops on the rear of my TA 4x4 provide the same (or possibly greater) braking force as the ventilated dinner plate discs on the front even allowing for weight distribution?

From the owners manual

 

[Haptron]

On the rear hub they sit in the top; if you did the rotor swap yourself there is a risk they get damaged (if not removed) whilst you try to prevent the hub rotating when freeing the calliper carrier.

I have had an ELD error with a puncture (wheel speed sensor kind of related) the different (rolling) wheel diameter threw the problem I guess.

Do you know if the rear ABS sensors of a standard 0.9 twinair Panda would fit my 4x4? I can't find one that says suitable for the 4x4.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Not correct 100% controlled electronically

Basically it allows each brake to work to the available grip and the car will stop in the shortest space. without the EBD or ABS backing it up its a bit of a fight fest and brakes become unpredictable. I have driven our with the EBD and ABS inoperative and its no fun. I wouldn't let anyone without extensive experience drive it at all. Reduced speedand light braking. Treat is as you would something thats 80 years old and you will be OK

I believe the brakes sizes are not as different as you suggest. Panda 100 could stop on a fair downslope near me from 100MPH in 95 yards. 4x4 system near on the samebut the tyres less wide and les grip so not as good but still better than most if working 100%.

 

[koalar]

Let's take a step back

We can keep throwing parts at the car until it's fixed

Battery
Alternator
Earth strap
Brake switch
Front off side ABS
Rear off side ABS
Front NS ABS
Rear NS ABS
Front NS wheel bearing
Front OS wheel bearing
Rear NS wheel bearing
Rear OS wheel bearing
ABS module
Body computer

And so on

We need, to try and diagnose the fault

Reading the code would we an obvious start

Let's hypothetically say it's B1010-64
Brake Switch Signal Plausibility Failure

We immediately eliminated anything at the wheels

And we can start to look at the wiring diagrams and trace the problem

 

[Haptron]

Let's take a step back

We can keep throwing parts at the car until it's fixed

Battery
Alternator
Earth strap
Brake switch
Front off side ABS
Rear off side ABS
Front NS ABS
Rear NS ABS
Front NS wheel bearing
Front OS wheel bearing
Rear NS wheel bearing
Rear OS wheel bearing
ABS module
Body computer

And so on

We need, to try and diagnose the fault

Reading the code would we an obvious start

Let's hypothetically say it's B1010-64
Brake Switch Signal Plausibility Failure

We immediately eliminated anything at the wheels

And we can start to look at the wiring diagrams and trace the problem

The difficult is reading this code as it doesn’t appear on cheap OBD readers and I’m wary of spending money to diagnose at a specialist who may do the same thing you say and replace parts one by one.

 

[koalar]

A new battery hasn’t helped, anyone have any other ideas for ways to fix it that don’t involve considerable amounts of money?

Does the start stop now function ?

 

[koalar]

Does your car have

shift Up and down arrows on the dash

If so are they working

 

[WitleyPanda]

Not correct 100% controlled electronically

Controlled, but the basic mechanical design is to suit the overall requirements? So in general rear brakes are lighter ( non vented), or smaller, or not multiple pistons etc?