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Technical Egr

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Technical Egr

varesecrazy said:
You seem to have confused 'EGR delete'
With a blanking plate


Just like your new unit..

You plug it into the loom
ECU drives it.. if it moves ok..
ECU is happy.. no warning light
Click to expand...

Ok pal can you just clarify things for me (sigh) but say thing slowly, as i'm a bit fick :)

Pretend i haven't fitted a new EGR valve-

If i remove the existing EGR valve, clean it up, refit it and fit 2 blanking plates, one on the exhaust side and one on the manifold side, i won't get any error codes ?
Phil D.
 
I think we got there. :D

If there's no EGR there at all, you will get an error, since the ECU tries to communicate with it and gets upset when it doesn't get a reply.

If you have no EGR there, you have to blank/seal off the pipes to and from it, otherwise the exhaust gas that normally passes through the EGR ends up in the engine bay.

If your EGR is new/clean and moving properly and fitted in place (technically it just has to be plugged in), you won't get an error.

If your EGR is in place/plugged in and doesn't work properly (stiff/seized or knackered) then you'll get an error because once the ECU has contacted it, it also checks to make sure it's working properly. Your old one wasn't (I guess), so this is what gave you your original error message.

If your EGR is working and you fit blanking plates to isolate it from the exhaust gas, then it won't give an error, since (as above) the ECU just checks it is there and it receives the correct signals from it.

If you're not now entirely fed up with EGRs :D you can fit blanking plates around your new EGR so that it is closed off and works, but isolated from the exhaust gas. But.. since it's brand new clean, if you don't do lots of short journies (and even if you do) it's going to take a very long time for it to get clogged up again, so there's no rush.


Ralf S.
 
Last edited:
Ralf S. said:
I think we got there. :D

If there's no EGR there at all, you will get an error, since the ECU tries to communicate with it and gets upset when it doesn't get a reply.

If you have no EGR there, you have to blank/seal off the pipes to and from it, otherwise the exhaust gas that normally passes through the EGR ends up in the engine bay.

If your EGR is new/clean and moving properly and fitted in place (technically it just has to be plugged in), you won't get an error.

If your EGR is in place/plugged in and doesn't work properly (stiff/seized or knackered) then you'll get an error because once the ECU has contacted it, it also checks to make sure it's working properly. Your old one wasn't (I guess), so this is what gave you your original error message.

If your EGR is working and you fit blanking plates to isolate it from the exhaust gas, then it won't give an error, since (as above) the ECU just checks it is there and it receives the correct signals from it.

If you're not now entirely fed up with EGRs :D you can fit blanking plates around your new EGR so that it is closed off and works, but isolated from the exhaust gas. But.. since it's brand new clean, if you don't do lots of short journies (and even if you do) it's going to take a very long time for it to get clogged up again, so there's no rush.


Ralf S.
Click to expand...

This is part of the reason i was confused,
dave said (on the Stilo forum) "blank it off and when you get a warning on the dash, find a remapper to get the EGR deleted" and Multitoni said on the multipla forum "blanking off the EGR will trigger the check engine light and annoying beeps after each startup, and the only way to get rid of this is rewriting out of the engine computer"

But it's all a bit of a moot point anyway, decided to take the Multipla for a run today, shot up the M6 as far as Penrith and back home 150 mile round trip, all fine, just got in the car again to nip for some fuel, and the check engine warning came on the dash again :shakehead: any more thoughts ?
 
Last edited:
Is check engine light on for same code as last time or do you have a new code?
How many pins in electrical connector of old egr?
How many pins in new egr connector?
 
jackwhoo said:
Is check engine light on for same code as last time or do you have a new code?
How many pins in electrical connector of old egr?
How many pins in new egr connector?
Click to expand...

Not sure what code yet pal, i will have to nip up to my mates garage tomorrow, to plug it in, the pins/connections are the same in the new EGR as the old one.
Phil D.
 
The number of pins in connector on eve valve actuator is relevant to how the ecu monitors function of egr valve.
 
Fingers crossed you fixed egr problem.
When you can get code read please post code number and description given by code reader.
Code number will be a letter followed by four numbers. Engine codes start with a P
 
Jackwhoo makes an important point about connectors. Ralph S does not say which engine he is refering to, but imples that it is direct feedback from the valve that is used for fault detection. This requires a sensor in the valve and associated electrical connetions. This needs a total of at least 3 connections but most valves with feedback have 5 or 6 pins. All of the Fiat 1.9 Multijet EGR valves I have seen only had 2 pins, this means no feedback. So Fiat 1.9 Multijets do not use position feedback. The multijet based SAAB 1.9 twin turbo engine EGR valve does have 5 pins and feedback, it is used on some cars. The information I have indicates that the 1.9 8V Multijet EGR valve does not use feedback and will not show a fault if EGR is blanked. The 16V EGR Valve has no feedback but the ECU uses feedback from the MAF and O2 sensors and and software to detect a stuck EGR valve so this also detects a blanked valve.

I'm not saying that there is no Fiat 1.9 Multijet that uses EGR valve position feedback, but I've never seen any evidence of one. Blanking or otherwise disabling the EGR is illegal in most countries including the UK. I Fitted a swirlplate to by Croma 1.9 16V EGR and had no more issues over 5 years.


Robert G8RPI.
 
g8rpi said:
Jackwhoo makes an important point about connectors. Ralph S does not say which engine he is refering to, but imples that it is direct feedback from the valve that is used for fault detection. This requires a sensor in the valve and associated electrical connetions. This needs a total of at least 3 connections but most valves with feedback have 5 or 6 pins. All of the Fiat 1.9 Multijet EGR valves I have seen only had 2 pins, this means no feedback. So Fiat 1.9 Multijets do not use position feedback. The multijet based SAAB 1.9 twin turbo engine EGR valve does have 5 pins and feedback, it is used on some cars.The information I have indicates that the 1.9 8V Multijet EGR valve does not use feedback and will not show a fault if EGR is blanked. The 16V EGR Valve has no feedback but the ECU uses feedback from the MAF and O2 sensors and and software to detect a stuck EGR valve so this also detects a blanked valve.

I'm not saying that there is no Fiat 1.9 Multijet that uses EGR valve position feedback, but I've never seen any evidence of one. Blanking or otherwise disabling the EGR is illegal in most countries including the UK. I Fitted a swirlplate to by Croma 1.9 16V EGR and had no more issues over 5 years.


Robert G8RPI.
Click to expand...

Thanks Robert,
Thanks for the information, i think i will blank it off sometime in the near future, but for now i still have the check engine warning to contend with, the old EGR only had 2 pins as does the new one, so i just swapped like for like.
Phil D.
 
g8rpi said:
It is obviously a 8V engine from the EGR photo so I'll be interested to see what the latest fault codes are. It's always possible there is another underlying problem and whill the EGR was gunged up it was not the root cause.


Robert G8RPI.
Click to expand...

That's what i was thinking :bang: what else can bring the EGR fault code up ?
Phil D.
 
Hi Robert, you got to the point of my question about pins on the connector(-:

I am thinking the ecu on Phil's multi likely uses maf sensor information to detect if there is flow of exhaust gasses through the eve valve when valve is open.

Phil , is there a corrigated stainless steel pipe connecting egr valve to inlet manifold?
Did you clean out corrigated pipe when you did egr valve change?
 
Last edited:
jackwhoo said:
Hi Robert, you got to the point of my question about pins on the connector(-:

I am thinking the ecu on Phil's multi likely uses maf sensor information to detect if there is flow of exhaust gasses through the eve valve when valve is open.

Phil , is there a corrigated stainless steel pipe connecting eve valve to inlet manifold?
Did you clean out corrigated pipe when you did egr valve change?
Click to expand...

Hi Jack,
There is a corrugated pipe to the inlet manifold, and no i didn't clean it out :(
I'll sort that tomorrow.
Phil D.
 
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