Technical Egr

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Technical Egr

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Mar 18, 2020
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Newton le willows
Hi all,
I have a 2010 multipla 1.9 diesel, and i have a question, but i'm not sure if there is definitive answer or not, the engine management warning has flashed up twice, both time on reset it showed the EGR valve, so i decided to take it off and clean it, JESUS CHRIST !!! what a pain, after a couple of hours struggle i've
decided it's staying where it is, but i can access the bolts for the flexi pipe to the manifold, and have loosened these, so in conclusion, i can fit a blanking plate, but if i do will this cure the warning on the dash situation ?
Phil D.
 
Hi,
Part 2 of my question-
If i do decide to blank the EGR off how many blank plates do i need and where do i put them, i've searched the forum, and found one post suggesting on a 1.9 JTD i need to fit 2 blanking plates ? it doesn't take a lot to confuse me :)
 
Hi, i am new to this forum, I own 3 fase2 multipla diesels euro4, doing the most off the maintenance myself (as far as my equipement allows). I am not a trained mechanic, solely a enthousiast with knowledge out of own experience. (this as a disclaimer :)).

It's easy to blank off the egr. One plate will do. It can be put after the egr for easy access. The material has to be sturdy enough. A strip of a soda can will burst, so not advised. I used a piece off a flexible stainless putty knife, which is thin and does not rust. One can buy blanks readymade from the internet. Your car will run fine, less soot, maybe a little gain in power and fuel consumption.

BUT: blanking off the egr will trigger the check-engine-light and annoying beeps and messages after each start up. Therefore the only way to get rid off the egr is by means of rewriting the engine computer. Here in the Netherlands one can do that for around 150 euro. It is not legally allowed because of alterations in emissions. I am not familiar with the rules are in other countries .

One can try to put a blank in with three little holes, to allow some exhaust gas to flow, just enough not to trigger the alarms.

Of course one can just replace a faulty egr for a new one, its do-able with the right tools not to ruin the Allen screws, working space is indeed tight. Be careful not to lose the thin gasket from the cooler pipes.

Good luck
 
Hi, i am new to this forum, I own 3 fase2 multipla diesels euro4, doing the most off the maintenance myself (as far as my equipement allows). I am not a trained mechanic, solely a enthousiast with knowledge out of own experience. (this as a disclaimer :)).

It's easy to blank off the egr. One plate will do. It can be put after the egr for easy access. The material has to be sturdy enough. A strip of a soda can will burst, so not advised. I used a piece off a flexible stainless putty knife, which is thin and does not rust. One can buy blanks readymade from the internet. Your car will run fine, less soot, maybe a little gain in power and fuel consumption.

BUT: blanking off the egr will trigger the check-engine-light and annoying beeps and messages after each start up. Therefore the only way to get rid off the egr is by means of rewriting the engine computer. Here in the Netherlands one can do that for around 150 euro. It is not legally allowed because of alterations in emissions. I am not familiar with the rules are in other countries .

One can try to put a blank in with three little holes, to allow some exhaust gas to flow, just enough not to trigger the alarms.

Of course one can just replace a faulty egr for a new one, its do-able with the right tools not to ruin the Allen screws, working space is indeed tight. Be careful not to lose the thin gasket from the cooler pipes.

How come some people report no error codes ?
 
Mk2 has particle filter and it regenerates periodically or should do.
It also squirts diesel in a more complex way ... multijet.
Not so many mk2s so engine knowledge on differences not high on this part of forum.
I have both and my mk1 has blanking using a bit of tin sheet. One.
On mk2 agree space around egr is a nightmare.
Our Dutch friends advice seems very good about things like gaskets dropping.
Does yours run one 1 bar on temperature ? If so for £30 odd quid put new stat in at the same time. It is fiddly job but you will be halfway there ...
Let us know how you get on

Lee
 
Mk2 has particle filter and it regenerates periodically or should do.
It also squirts diesel in a more complex way ... multijet.
Not so many mk2s so engine knowledge on differences not high on this part of forum.
I have both and my mk1 has blanking using a bit of tin sheet. One.
On mk2 agree space around egr is a nightmare.
Our Dutch friends advice seems very good about things like gaskets dropping.
Does yours run one 1 bar on temperature ? If so for £30 odd quid put new stat in at the same time. It is fiddly job but you will be halfway there ...
Let us know how you get on

Lee

Hi Lee,
Thanks for your reply, finally got the EGR off, after days of soaking the bolts/screws in penetrating fluid, it is full of soot/coke, and i think it has been altered before, as there is a home made gasket/plate with 3 holes drilled in it, between the EGR and the engine manifold, i could clean it out, but i think i will just fit a new one, for a couple of reasons- 1, the gasket between the ERG and the pipe that goes down behind the engine, is missing, so as a EGR comes with gaskets i can replace this. 2, fitting a new one should give me a few mile motoring before the warning come on again. Any thoughts ?
also which is the one to fit, best value etc...
 
If its cleaned and works/replaced then no message by the sounds of it. I would try cleaning it.
I think people remove egr and dpf and get them coded out for performance benefit and saving on repairs
 
If its cleaned and works/replaced then no message by the sounds of it. I would try cleaning it.
I think people remove egr and dpf and get them coded out for performance benefit and saving on repairs

But i wont know if it works ok until i put it back, and with the gasket missing, and it being a pain to get at, i might as well fit a new one, which one do people recommend ?
 
IMG_20200505_103721-01.jpeg

New EGR valve arrived and will be fitted tomorrow :)
 
Sorry did not know what type to recommend. Which one did you go for ?
Autodoc is where a lot of peeps get spares from and go for better brands.
 
There's a bit of Confused in this thread.. although I've only skimmed it, so it may just be me.

First of all, the simple stuff.
If you *remove* your EGR and blank off the entry/exit ports, you will get an error when the ECU doesn't receive a response from the EGR.
You can get some tweaking done to the ECU so it doesn't check the EGR is responding (to prevent the "EGR missing" error...) but there's no point. Leave your EGR in place and pocket the €150, less my commision €50 for the money I saved you.. :D
You won't get an error just because you blanked off the EGR. It only checks that the EGR is alive and working through its open-closed movement range... it doesn't measure gas flow through it etc.

The blanking plate with the holes in it is a retro-fit, which is why it appears to have been tampered with before.
Fiat introduced the mod' to try and get some "swirl" in the exhaust gas so that it prevented a bit of coking up, so it's a pukka factory mod' (though also copied in the aftermarket).
On the other hand... it doesn't 100% work as you have found out... so dump the plate with the holes in it.

You should just clean your EGR to buggeration. There's a cylinder that moves and it's that which gets bunged up. The EGR may still be good, if it's cleaned and freed up to move... or it may be burnt out from fighting a resistance... but you have a new one now, so it's too late to worry about that now.

Once you have a new/cleaned to buggeration EGR you need to make sure it doesn't get clogged up again.
For me, the *only* sensible way to do this (and I'm not interested in any further debate.. :D ) is to blank both the EGR entry and the exit ports.

The best place to blank the exit port is immediately next to the EGR valve. It's the best place because there's no other place to close this off.
If you don't close off the exit, oil mist and gum from the inlet manifold will find its way into the EGR and accumulate around the mechanism, since there's no positive pressure/exhaust coming from the EGR side to prevent it.
Your EGR will get gummed up rather than sooted up (appreciating that this will take a while) but you'll get another error, eventually.

The other (and main) place to blank it is the entry port.
The best place to do this is at the exhaust manifold where the EGR plumbery joins the exhaust system. This will prevent gas/soot being deposited inside the metal pipe that runs under the inlet manifold to the EGR. If that pipe gets blocked up it's no big deal but if you ever want to ressurect the EGR (if emissions tests/testing changes) then you don't want a pipe full of coal.

But as these nuts are likely to be crusted to the manifold, you won't be able to undo the pipe at the bottom, so the other place to do it is at the top, next to the EGR itself, which is doubly handy since you already have to remove the EGR to fit the exit blank anyway.
So... in reality you'll end up with two blanks, right next to the EGR entry and exit ports, respectively.

The last thing.. buy stainless 2-3mm blanks from the internet. Don't do all this work/cash and then DIY some old Coke cans or they'll fracture/melt and you'll have to do it all over again. Check whether your motore is 120bhp, 115bhp or 85 etc... and get the blanks for that engine, since the hole spacing is slightly out (you'll see some blanks have slotted holes, to make them more universal. They work too,).

This way, your EGR will be working fine but will be protected forever in a nice soot/grime free chamber.. Keep it plugged in... it'll be doing its thing but obviously no gas will be bothering it so it'll stay clean/functioning forever.


Ralf S.
 
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Additionally, the EGR error stays in the ECU error log for a while.

Before you fit your new EGR, plug it in to the EGR connector lead.

Turn on the ignition (without starting the engine) and wait for the check lights to go out/EGR error to appear.

Turn it off... wait 5-10 seconds, then repeat the procedure.

After "3 attempts" with no error (according to legend.. I think it's 5 attempts) the error should disappear, as it drops off the ECU's "things I need to worry about" list.

Once you can turn on the ignition without any errors, then you know the ECU is happy with the new EGR so you can go ahead and fit it.


Ralf S.
 
There's a bit of Confused in this thread.. although I've only skimmed it, so it may just be me.

First of all, the simple stuff. If you remove your EGR and blank off the entry/exit ports, you will get an error when the ECU doesn't receive a response from the EGR.
You can get some tweaking done to the ECU so it doesn't check the EGR is responding (to prevent the "EGR missing" error...) but there's no point. Leave your EGR in place and pocket the €150, less my commision €50 for the money I saved you..
:D

The blanking plate with the holes in it is a retro-fit, which is why it appears to have been tampered with before.
Fiat introduced the mod' to try and get some "swirl" in the exhaust gas so that it prevented a bit of coking up, so it's a pukka factory mod' (though also copied in the aftermarket). On the other hand... it doesn't 100% work as you have found out... so dump the plate with the holes in it.

You should just clean your EGR to buggeration. There's a cylinder that moves and it's that which gets bunged up. The EGR may still be good, if it's cleaned and freed up to move... or it may be burnt out from fighting a resistance... but you have a new one now, so it's too late to worry about that now.

Once you have a new/cleaned to buggeration EGR you need to make sure it doesn't get clogged up again. For me, the *only* sensible way to do this (and I'm not interested in any further debate.. :D ) is to blank both the EGR entry and the exit ports.

The best place to blank the exit port is immediately next to the EGR valve. It's the best place because there's no other place to close this off.
If you don't close off the exit, oil mist and gum from the inlet manifold will find its way into the EGR and accumulate around the mechanism, since there's no positive pressure/exhaust coming from the EGR side to prevent it. Your EGR will get gummed up rather than sooted up (appreciating that this will take a while) but you'll get another error, eventually.

The other (and main) place to blank it is the entry port.
The best place to do this is at the exhaust manifold where the EGR plumbery joins the exhaust system. This will prevent gas/soot being deposited inside the metal pipe that runs under the inlet manifold to the EGR. If that pipe gets blocked up it's no big deal but if you ever want to ressurect the EGR (if emissions tests/testing changes) then you don't want a pipe full of coal.

But as these nuts are likely to be crusted to the manifold, you won't be able to undo the pipe at the bottom, so the other place to do it is at the top, next to the EGR itself, which is doubly handy since you already have to remove the EGR to fit the exit blank anyway. So... in reality you'll end up with two blanks, right next to the EGR entry and exit ports, respectively.

The last thing.. buy stainless 2-3mm blanks from the internet. Don't do all this work/cash and then DIY some old Coke cans or they'll fracture/melt and you'll have to do it all over again. Check whether your motore is 120bhp, 115bhp or 85 etc... and get the blanks for that engine, since the hole spacing is slightly out (you'll see some blanks have slotted holes, to make them more universal. They work too,).

This way, your EGR will be working fine but will be protected forever in a nice soot/grime free chamber.. Keep it plugged in... it'll be doing its thing but obviously no gas will be bothering it so it'll stay clean/functioning forever.


Ralf S.

Cheers Ralf,
But that's confused me even more, first of all you say if i blank off the ERG i will get a error code, but don't bother getting it written out of the ECU, then the next thing you are telling me to blank it off, to be honest i've just finished fitting my new EGR valve, after giving it some consideration, and because various people on the forum told me i can't blank the EGR off on my car without getting error codes :confused:
 
Ralf said:

Remove it..placed in boot / bin.. you get a light

Leave it.. but blanked off.. no light

Its a piston.. as long as it drives to its limits.. no light :)

But for every response that says no warnings, there is a post that says there will be a warning, and it needs mapping out, makes me think, i don't know what to think :confused: perhaps i should have tried blanking it first, but what's done is done.
 
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