General ECU Reset

[durhamlad]

My Panda Eleganza Dualogic jumps badly when either driving slowly or reversing.
I have read on the internet that it is possible to do a reset of the ECU by disconnecting the battery, getting rid of residue by pressing brake pedal, then reconnecting the battery and taking the car for a run so that it relearns.
Is it possible that this will sort out the judder?? I am not really into car maintenance so couldn't do anything much more complicated.
I have booked the car into the garage next Friday 9th Sept to have it checked out but thought I might give this a try before I go.
The car is not driven very much, I've had it a year, and the chap I bought it from had it in a garage unused for some time. Could this contribute to the problem. It's 2010 and has done under 15,000 miles.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[irc]

Hi.
Could do with some more details. I will assume you are new to Dualogics.
When you say it jumps, do you mean
A) the engine stutters when driving slowly, but not when driving at "normal" speeds.
B) the car judders when pulling away forwards or backwards i.e. when the clutch is not fully engaged
C) something else
Dualogics can be a bit "jumpy" when cold, but that is often down to driving style (people who are used to automatic gearboxes often seem to struggle more until they realise it needs a different way of driving)
I have tried the disconnect ecu method to trigger a re-learn and it did not seem to do much.
I eventually cleared the learned setting using MultiECUScan, but it didn't make much difference.
You could try finding a nice empty space (I used a supermarket car park) and experiment with using more or less throttle to pull away.

 

[durhamlad]

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply to my post.

The engine stutters when I drive at slow speeds. Like standing in a slow moving queue of traffic. It goes beautifully when driving at a normal speed and is no bother at all.

Yes it judders in reverse. I do the usual things....brake on start engine in neutral, move to reverse and press the accelerator. It bunny hops similar to when first learning the clutch on a manual car.

We have quite a long drive with a turn on it up to the front door and I have found that if I just let the car move along in 1st without me pressing the accelerator then it parks well. I only learnt that the other day!! I wonder if a driving lesson would help.

I think a trip to the car park is a good idea...thanks for that...and just see if it is something I'm doing myself before I take it to the garage.

 

[bob1969]

I found an improvement in control on ours as we replaced the MAP sensor. Cleaning your MAP sensor may do the same thing as the difference in clutch control is amazing. It will pull you along in 1st and 2nd with out your foot on the accelerator like a normal automatic. Just dab the brake pedal engages the clutch.

 

[durhamlad]

Thank you Bob 169 for the information about cleaning the MAP sensor.

After reading your post I found something on YouTube
(sorry can't post URL)
which illustrates how to change this on a Fiat car. It doesn't look too difficult.... I'll have a look tomorrow.

I notice that it is a Bosch MAP sensor on YouTube. The garage we're taking the car to on Friday uses a Bosch machine which we hope will recognise the problem. Maybe it would throw this up as being what's wrong with the car.

If I chicken out of doing it myself I will certainly make a note of it and mention it on Friday.

Thank you for pointing this out to me, I appreciate it very much.

 

[DaveMcT]

The Duologic has an annoying feature of doing a full diagnostic every time its put into gear from neutral.

If you pull up at traffic light and leave it in gear the system just presses the clutch down. When the lights change, you press the accelerator and away you go.

If you put in into neutral the system forgets all its settings. When the lights change you put it into gear and then have to wait while it faffs about relearning what it knew perfectly well a couple of minutes ago. If you hit the accelerator too soon the car will drop the clutch and lurch forwards.

So only use neutral when you are parking the car as this puts less strain on the servos. At almost any other time just leave it in drive.

I can't remember if reverse gear does the same relearn process but its likely you need to wait for it to settle before driving back.

 

[bob1969]

I would say that leaving the car in gear for long periods of time can bend the clutch release forks hence it puts itself in neutral after a couple of minutes by its self. I have never had any issue putting it in neutral however it's a pain if you forget to press the brake pedal when you put it in drive as it just beeps at you.

Ref the MAP sensor it's very easy to remove. Remove the air box completely its right in front of you, to the right hand side of the throttle body. To remove left up yellow tag the pull off plug. Undo torx bolt and wiggle out. Clean with artist brush in meths by gently brush meths over it, dry, then replace all bits in reverse order. To check how good yours is connect to Multiecuscan or a good diagnostic system and select engine the scroll down the sensors. It should only be a couple of millibars different to the outside air pressure. Check your weather forecast. Check when engine is cold and ignition on.

 

[DaveMcT]

I used neutral for parking the car, but left it in gear at traffic lights. It was always in gear at traffic islands because you simply can't wait for the diagnostics when a traffic gap appears.

This was my only gripe with how the Duologic functions but really not a big deal.

I didn't like the lever direction for manual shifting. I often selected Up when I wanted to shift Down (e.g. on a hill). But I could have easily swapped the wires over to have it work to my taste.

 

[durhamlad]

Thank you everyone for all your help.

I have got my Panda back from the garage and the results have been:

The equipment at the garage would not recognise any fault. I need to take it into a proper Fiat dealer. It was Bosch equipment at my garage which I thought would recognise any fault.
The mechanic told me that even taking it to a Fiat garage and using their diagnostic equipment might not work.

Unplugging the lead to the Battery could cause more harm than good he said

He said that the problem I have is pretty common and went on to explain why, something about compression disks inside the gear rubbing together caused problems, all way above my head.

He also suggested using the car more often.

I think I will try cleaning the MAP sensor (thank you Bob1969) to see if that makes any difference.

I find the same as DaveMcT ... we have a very dangerous and extremely fast roundabout near us I have to cross on a regular basis and believe me you take your life in your hands there. I generally am in gear, put the handbrake on and get ready for the dash of death. If my car had to think about it for more that a second or two, then goodness knows what would happen

So that's where I am now. We have both decided to use the Panda more often and get used to how it drives as I do love it and would hate to part with it. I have given it a stern talking to and expect improvements.

Thanks to all for taking the time to help me.

 

[Zeewulf]

Thank you everyone for all your help.

I have got my Panda back from the garage and the results have been:

The equipment at the garage would not recognise any fault. I need to take it into a proper Fiat dealer. It was Bosch equipment at my garage which I thought would recognise any fault.
The mechanic told me that even taking it to a Fiat garage and using their diagnostic equipment might not work.

Unplugging the lead to the Battery could cause more harm than good he said

He said that the problem I have is pretty common and went on to explain why, something about compression disks inside the gear rubbing together caused problems, all way above my head.

He also suggested using the car more often.

I think I will try cleaning the MAP sensor (thank you Bob1969) to see if that makes any difference.

I find the same as DaveMcT ... we have a very dangerous and extremely fast roundabout near us I have to cross on a regular basis and believe me you take your life in your hands there. I generally am in gear, put the handbrake on and get ready for the dash of death. If my car had to think about it for more that a second or two, then goodness knows what would happen

So that's where I am now. We have both decided to use the Panda more often and get used to how it drives as I do love it and would hate to part with it. I have given it a stern talking to and expect improvements.

Thanks to all for taking the time to help me.

If your planning on keeping the car a while invest in MultiEcuScan, that way you can check fault codes etc. yourself via the diagnostic socket (laptop required).

http://www.multiecuscan.net/

 

[SPORTPACK50]

I have given it a stern talking to and expect improvements.

You need to give it a damned good thrashing....

 

[durhamlad]

Thank you....am looking at it now and downloading instructions

 

[irc]

Definitely agree with using it more. I bought a low mileage 1.2 Dualogic a while back, and it was a struggle to drive smoothly even though I was used to Dualogics.
With the previous owner it normally did 4 trips a week, about 4 miles each. The longest trip it had done in the previous year was to the MOT station.
Must have really freaked it out when I drove it 120 miles home.
Took a few weeks to get loosened up, but now it is fine....

Apart from cold starts after damp evenings. Then it can be a bit of a kangaroo for the first half mile or so. I've found that just a bit more throttle than usual seems to calm it down. And then manually flicking it into second a bit earlier than it would do automatically.

I change to Neutral when sitting in stationary traffic, and a traffic lights with long Red sequences. Otherwise just leave in Auto.

Not really found that it is a problem pulling away at roundabouts, but could see how it would be a pain if changing to/from neutral every time.

I assume you have (re-)read the Dualogic Supplement manual? (If not and you need a copy try the Downloads section). I always enjoy the "brilliant" start line.

Hopefully the stern talk will help too.

 

[bob1969]

Thank you everyone for all your help.

I have got my Panda back from the garage and the results have been:

The equipment at the garage would not recognise any fault. I need to take it into a proper Fiat dealer. It was Bosch equipment at my garage which I thought would recognise any fault.
The mechanic told me that even taking it to a Fiat garage and using their diagnostic equipment might not work.

Unplugging the lead to the Battery could cause more harm than good he said

He said that the problem I have is pretty common and went on to explain why, something about compression disks inside the gear rubbing together caused problems, all way above my head.

He also suggested using the car more often.

I think I will try cleaning the MAP sensor (thank you Bob1969) to see if that makes any difference.

I find the same as DaveMcT ... we have a very dangerous and extremely fast roundabout near us I have to cross on a regular basis and believe me you take your life in your hands there. I generally am in gear, put the handbrake on and get ready for the dash of death. If my car had to think about it for more that a second or two, then goodness knows what would happen

So that's where I am now. We have both decided to use the Panda more often and get used to how it drives as I do love it and would hate to part with it. I have given it a stern talking to and expect improvements.

Thanks to all for taking the time to help me.

Yes roundabouts! If you approach in 2nd gear and want to pull off smartly it will slip the clutch which means a slow get away. So on difficult roundabouts I stop and then go. It's the limits of the system. Otherwise I enjoy driving it. With Multiecuscan you can reset the gearbox and delete some statically data which it stores. It will then relearn gear changes etc. Disconnecting the battery won't do any damage but do remember your radio code etc. Don't reconnect it with drivers door open as the pump will prime for the gearbox.

 

[durhamlad]

Thanks for the info irc. I have downloaded the supplement and read it through carefully.
I was interested to read about your problems with your Dualogic as mine has had a similar history...under 15,000 for a 2010 car tells its own story.
I use if about three times a week that's all to go about 8 miles there and back...not enough I can see that now.
Now we have both decided to use it a lot more.
I knew nothing of dualogic engines when we bought the car and have always thought it was my fault that it was jumping and that I was doing something wrong. So it has done me good to read that others, more experienced than I am, have had the same problems.
Thank goodness for the Fiat Forum!