Technical Earthing strap?!

[John202020]

Do you have access to another car(battery) or jump leads(from another car) I would try swapping with a known charged one or use jump leads to another car before possibly wasting money on a charger? If using jump leads, read the book as to position of cables(for stop start cars) the car with the good battery shouldn't be running!
"Clicking " when turning the key but not turning over is classic flat battery symptoms

 

[Susie170911]

Do you have access to another car(battery) or jump leads(from another car) I would try swapping with a known charged one or use jump leads to another car before possibly wasting money on a charger? If using jump leads, read the book as to position of cables(for stop start cars) the car with the good battery shouldn't be running!

No our other car doesn't have a stop start battery and although I have jump leads I don't want to take the risk jumping it if their is potentially an electrical issue with mine - can't afford to bugger up both cars!!! I'm just get to get a charger and see - even if it doesn't work forint now it'll always come in handy in the future - lost count how many times someone in the family/extended family has needed a battery charger over the years and we also go to my father-in-law for it!! Unfortunately his isn't a smart charger so won't do for kine anymore! Thanks for trying to save me money though!

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

A good battery charger is an investment. I got the CTEK MXS 5.0 which tests various parameters and should indicate if there's any problem with your battery. During the months of lockdown here in the last two years it's kept my S/S battery ready to go despite weeks without use.

 

[Baglady1990]

Thanks - I'm going to get a stop start charger today and put it on later this afternoon just to check incase all the trying to start it and fix the problem over the last week has drained the battery.

Thanks also I'll have another check of the loom - is there anything in particular I should be looking for - or just any damage at all?

You need to check if the repair has been done properly ie a new set of wires (more flexible) than the original or if the repair just consists of heat shrink you will know as the wires will still be quite short
If the replacement loom has been added the wires will be a bit longer and the rubber grommet will look newer .. pic below of my repair while I was doing it

 

[John202020]

Your other car doesn't need to have a ss battery if you're using for jump starting and with it switched off there's no risk to your other car, people make the mistake of having the good cars battery engine running whilst jump starting another, this is a bad idea.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

Your other car doesn't need to have a ss battery if you're using for jump starting and with it switched off there's no risk to your other car, people make the mistake of having the good cars battery engine running whilst jump starting another, this is a bad idea.

Yet some instructions I've read tell you to do exactly that! Such as;

How to jump start a car in 9 steps | The AA

How to jump start a car step by step guide. Learn how to safely jump start a dead battery by using another car or a battery booster pack.

www.theaa.com

I'm not keen on jump starting from a donor car at all these days and don't even have leads. I do have a rechargeable jump start pack in the boot which has proved useful on a couple of occasions starting other people's cars.

 

[John202020]

If the donor cars battery is in good condition then its quite capable of starting another car via the leads engine off, what you don't want is the donor cars electrical system to have a "starting current demand" whilst the alternator is running it would go from minimum current to max output, far safer to just clip on the leads crank over the flat car, should fire up within seconds if that then un clip the lead, you also don't have a conflict of charging with two cars alternators effectively working together? The few times I've needed to jump start usually someone else's car I use the engine off method

 

[Susie170911]

OK so got a battery charger today but not had chance to put it on yet - just on the off chance though i tried starting her up...

She started without any hesitation so the battery although maybe not in 100% condition certainly isnt drained however she won't idle for more than 10-15 secs before cutting out.

So here's my thing she started with random warning lights but would cut out if going for reverse or touching the brake but would idle fine and warning lights would disappear upon restart until the brake or reverse was selected then they'd come up again including check power steering, fuel cut off unavailable, start stop unavailable, check air bags, check abs, temp to high - you get the picture she has thrown every possible warning at me! But they would go off upon restart.

Roll on a few days AA mechanic can't find the problem thinks it's maybe an earthing problem - checked rear hatch loom he said couldn't see anything wrong with it (I will check this again myself tomorrow!), we have changed the ground strap from earth point to gearbox as was going green, the battery isn't drained but now the car will start with all warnings on right from the get go and will not idle for more than a matter of secs and still cuts out the second you press the brake or go for reverse and last night after a few attempts at starting on the last try it kind've made a clunk but didn't crank and just cut straight out. Today it will start but won't idle?!

Any ideas where I should go next to look at? Or any ideas that could be causing the problem? I'll check the loom again tomorrow. Could it be fuel related - I did put a tenners worth of fuel in it the morning it all went wrong?

Or could it be the alternator, a vacuum leak, or is it more likely to be wiring issues?

I'm just so confused with it cutting out when brakes are touched or trying to select reverse - you could select 1st and pull off on bite so not a clutch problem but with the electrics all going to me that suggests wiring or electric fault. As always any help greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[John202020]

The reversing light circuit is extremely simple power via the key, a switch and a bulb other than its also connected to the "engine management control unit" ?
The brakes are ignition switch, fuse 37, switch, lights but are also shown with two wires from the fuse box to the instrument cluster though its not clear why this is shown in the stop lights diagram but there must be a reason

 

[Susie170911]

OK so got a battery charger today but notnhad chance to put it on yet - just on the pff chance though i trued starting her up...

She started without any hesitation so the battery although maybe not in 100% condition certainly isnt drained however she won't idle for more than 10-15 secs before cutting out.

So here's my thing she started with random warning lights but would cut out if going for reverse or touching the brake but would idle fine and warning lights would disappear upon restart until the brake or reverse was selected then they'd come up again including check power steering, fuel cut off unavailable, start stop unavailable, check air bags, check abs, temp to high - you gey the picture she has thrown every possible warning at me! But they would go off upon restart.

Roll on a few days AA mechanic can't find the problem thinks it's maybe an earthing problem - checked rear hatch loom he said could see anything wrong with it (I will check this again myself tomorrow!), we have changed the ground strap from earth point to gearbox ad was going green, the battery isn't drained but now the car will start with all warnings on right from the get go and will not idle for more than a matter of secs and still cuts out the second you press the brake or go for reverse and last night after a few attempts at starting on the last it kind've made a clunk but didn't crank and just cut straight out. Today it will start but won't idle?!

Any ideas where I should go next to look at? Or any ideas that could be causing the problem? I'll check the loom again tomorrow. Could it be fuel related - I didn't put a tenners worth of fuel in it the morning it went wrong? Or could it be the alternator, a vacuum leak, or is it more likely to be wiring issues? I'm just so confused with it cutting out when brakes are touched or trying to select reverse - you could select 1st and pull off on bite so not a clutch problem but with the electrics all going to me that suggests wiring or electric fault. As always Amy help greatly appreciated

The reversing light circuit is extremely simple power via the key, a switch and a bulb other than its also connected to the "engine management control unit" ?
The brakes are ignition switch, fuse 37, switch, lights but are also shown with two wires from the fuse box to the instrument cluster though its not clear why this is shown in the stop lights diagram but there must be a reason

So do you think all my issues come down to an electrical fault rather than fuel/alternator/vacuum leak etc? Thanks again - maybe is should check the fuses tomorrow too?

 

[John202020]

I'm tempted to say you need a auto electrician with Fiat specific software
You could try this experiment pull fuse 37 in the passenger fuse box which should be brake lights also remove fuse 87 in the engine compartment fuse box which should be for the reversing light( check as it may have changed from my Haynes manual ) try starting the car(if it will) and repeat your brake light test or reverse light test, does it cut out? with no power to each circuit in theory there can't be any earth leak or rouge signal to other systems?
With the ignition on but not started do you have any brake lights? same when in reverse does the light work, not started-with the fuses in place!

Whats peoples thoughts on BCM?

 

[Susie170911]

I'm tempted to say you need a auto electrician
You could try this experiment pull fuse 37 in the passenger fuse box which should be brake lights also remove fuse 87 in the engine compartment fuse box which should be for the reversing light( check as it may have changed from my Haynes manual ) try starting the car(if it will) and repeat your brake light test or reverse light test, does it cut out? with no power to each circuit in theory there can't be any earth leak or rouge signal to other systems?
With the ignition on but not started do you have any brake lights? same when in reverse does the light work, not started-with the fuses in place!

Whats peoples thoughts on BCM?

OK so just been out and check the rear lights without actually starting the car...

When ignition turned on the day lights come on on the front but the rear ones do not come on. However when main beam is turned on the rear lights do come on as well as the fronts.

When the brake pedal is depressed either with or without main beam none of the brake lights come on and even with the engine not running pressing the brake pedal kills all the lights front and back.

The reverse light doesn't come on at all amd like the brake kills all the lights when selected.

 

[John202020]

Thank you
You need an expert auto electrician

 

[Susie170911]

Thank you
You need an expert auto electrician

Thanks - its going to be able to find one - tried my local the other day and didnt want to know - basically said it was going to be too much trouble!

Any idea what the issue might be?

 

[chris3234]

Could be be worth removing the aux belt I'm sure someone here had a stalling issue caused by a partially sized alternator lately?

 

[John202020]

Could be be worth removing the aux belt I'm sure someone here had a stalling issue caused by a partially sized alternator lately?

maybe, but why would pressing the brake pedal when the brake lights don't actually work kill all the lights even with the engine off?

 

[Susie170911]

Could be be worth removing the aux belt I'm sure someone here had a stalling issue caused by a partially sized alternator lately?

That wouldn't cause my rear light situation though

maybe, but why would pressing the brake pedal when the brake lights don't actually work kill all the lights even with the engine off?

Just going through my haynes manual now and looking at the wiring diagrams and earthing points to find of there's any overlap between them thats not included with lights I know that are working to try and narrow down the possible wires or areas of problems. Might not be something i csn fix but if I can at least find the problem I can point someone in the right direction!

 

[Baglady1990]

OK so just been out and check the rear lights without actually starting the car...

When ignition turned on the day lights come on on the front but the rear ones do not come on. However when main beam is turned on the rear lights do come on as well as the fronts.

When the brake pedal is depressed either with or without main beam none of the brake lights come on and even with the engine not running pressing the brake pedal kills all the lights front and back.

The reverse light doesn't come on at all amd like the brake kills all the lights when selected.

There’s got to be a short somewhere surly!
When key is turned to mar without starting daylights come on regardless unless turned off
Main beams on rear parking lights should be on & obviously brake lights when pedal pressed .. but if brake kills all lights!?
As for reverse light I’d be suggesting the loom (hatch) but could it be possible bulb blown?

I’m still wondering if that hatch wiring is ok?

 

[Baglady1990]

That wouldn't cause my rear light situation though


Just going through my haynes manual now and looking at the wiring diagrams and earthing points to find of there's any overlap between them thats not included with lights I know that are working to try and narrow down the possible wires or areas of problems. Might not be something i csn fix but if I can at least find the problem I can point someone in

There’s got to be a short somewhere surly!
When key is turned to mar without starting daylights come on regardless unless turned off
Main beams on rear parking lights should be on & obviously brake lights when pedal pressed .. but if brake kills all lights!?
As for reverse light I’d be suggesting the loom (hatch) but could it be possible bulb blown?

I’m still wondering if that hatch wiring is ok?

do you have multiecuscan? It’s fiat specific software it’s €50 online runs on your laptop just need a set of cables on eBay it could cut out all the guesswork

 

[jrkitching]

AA checked the wiring loom in the rear hatch and found it has been replaced before but couldn't see any problems with it

Given their inability to spot what was happening with your earth cable, I wouldn't have any confidence in that statement.

I'd say there's every possibility that the rear hatch wiring repair has failed again. At the very least, I'd strip back whatever trim I needed to and inspect the whole repaired section very carefully.

This needs looking at by a competent auto electrician; unless you've the confidence to do this yourself, I can't see any other reasonable alternative way forward at this stage. There's no point in even trying to run diagnostics until you're certain this wiring is sound (and doing so could even cause further damage).