General Do you fly at 100 mph?

[doctorchris]

I agree with Ugly Duckling's views on driving at 70mph on the motorway and his analysis of the problems caused by driving at higher speeds.
My Panda 4x4 is not fast and gets very thirsty on fuel at over 70mph.
I try to use the inside lane as much as possible, it is easy to get into the middle lane to overtake if you use anticipation and give the cars doing 80+ in that lane time and space to move over to the outer lane. At 70mph you rarely need to use the outer lane, therefore the 80+ driver is hardly ever held up.
The inside lane is often relatively empty and you can leave a good gap between yourself and the vehicle in front.
The outer lane is the dangerous place to be. A mix of drivers who all want to exceed the speed limit but all by varying amounts. Hence a lot of high speed tailgating and quite large variations in speed in the lane as cars trying to get into the lane from the middle lane to overtake have to squeeze into small gaps producing a braking effect that can have a knock on effect for hundreds of yards back in the queue.
This is why the 70mph driver often finds that he catches up with the 80+ drivers.
These days I've adopted a policy of adhering to all speed limits as much as is humanly possible. One reason is that I have no idea on unknown roads where the cameras are and on known roads where the mobile camera will be. In addition, if you speed then what do accept as your norm. 80, 90, 100mph where the limit is 70mph? Finally, in the relatively heavy traffic conditions on our motorways, I find little difference in journey times whether you do 70 or 80 mph.
I was speaking to my brother last night, someone who I've always known to have fast vehicles and to use that speed. Surprisingly, he now sticks carefully to speed limits. Maybe it's because he has reached 47 (years, not mph). I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that his big fast car is hitting him in the pocket with fuel costs.
Finally, I do feel that, apart from quiet motorways with no cameras and few patrol cars, eg the M74 on the 3 lane section starting at Gretna, more and more people are adhering to speed limits and I'm sure it is down to avoiding speeding convictions and fuel cost.

 

[doctorchris]

The 70mph limit was introduced in 1965 as a temporary measure as a result of one of our several fuel crises (I cannot find out which one it was) that have occured over the years and did not have much to do with safety.
As we are basically in another fuel crisis, the producers reall cannot match increasing demand for fuel from Asia, and this crisis is probably limitless in terms of duration, I cannot ever see a motorway speed limit of more than 70mph being introduced.

 

[Flashart]

Indeed - someone sticking to dead on 70 and not keeping up with the flow of the traffic is potentially more of a hazard than those doing 80+

I don't subscribe to this point of view. Someone doing the limit on the motorway (at least I am pretty sure 70 was the limit last time I checked..) is more of a hazard because he or she is not keeping up with people breaking the law?

If everyone did 70 then that would be the "flow of traffic" would it not?

 

[Advanced Driver]

Here are some comments about a few replies.

PNL:

The comment about the face of the Porche driver is interesting. A Porche could easily do speeds far beyond the speed of a Panda, he must have been doing that speed for a reason.

pdtrewern:

It does seem to be amazing how quick you can stop... when you are sat inside a modern car. Look at it on paper though and it's a different story. At just 80mph you will travel 24m in the time it takes to react to something such as brake lights on the vehicle in front. At 70mph it takes 96m to stop (motorways have posts at the edges with 100m between them, which is a good guidance). Now you are going to argue that modern cars stop quicker, which is true, but the car in front of you probably will too, and the car behind you may not be able to stop as easily etc.! btw, ABS doesn't decrease the braking distance! Also, the reaction/thinking time assumes that you are staring at the brake lights in front and waiting for them to come on. If the driver brakes when you're looking in your mirror or something else, then all of the benefits of good stopping power will be lost! btw at just 80mph the overall stopping distance is 122m, which is nearly 30% more than at 70mph!

HP:

Yes it is true that you can get the concertina effect at any speed, although more so with higher speeds. However my original argument isn't that 80+mph is dangerous, it's that the people doing 80+mph are dangerous. Most of the people doing 80+mph would be dangerous even at 70mph IMHO!

doctorchris:

That's another interesting thing you've said about the varying speeds. All drivers seem to have different views about the maximum speeds. Some will do approx 80mph because they can usually get away with it, some will do approx 95mph so that they don't get banned, and others will do whatever they can. Where do you draw the line? Doing 80+mph can cause just as many problems as 70mph because there will always be somebody who wants to go faster.

 

[Stu DemonD]

If everyone did 70 then that would be the "flow of traffic" would it not?

Lorries don't do 70, so how will you get around that 'logic'?

I have overtaken Police doing 80, and they don't even blink an eye at it. Why would they....

I try and keep it under 100, but depends on the motorway in question [M10 / M45 for example ]

 

[dave]

No, I am more than happy with my motorway skills, and would be perfectly happy to do 100+mph if it was legal. If driving at 70mph is dangerous then somebody is clearly doing something wrong!

70mph on your speedo could only be 60 in real life though

 

[Millsey69]

Personally I think the phrase "appropriate speed" is key, and in an ideal world we would all drive as fast as conditions safely allow.

At 3am on a deserted motorway with good weather conditions, over 100mph would be safe, while on the other hand 70mph on the M25 in torrential rain during the rush hour is probably too fast.

The unfortunate reality is that the majority of drivers can't be trusted to make this judgement, hence the need for speed limits.

IMHO, congestion is caused by poor driving rather than speed; driving too close to the car in front and poor lane discipline being the main culprits.

Anyway, that's my two pennies worth.

 

[Schwenck]

Its amazing just how quick you can stop, if required.

Very true, assuming you are paying attention and all four wheels are pointing in the direction of travel. And for the all wonders of ABS, ESR etc a car out of control at 90mph has much more kinetic energy to dissipate than one at 70mph. For that reason - and that the current UK crash barriers can barely contain modern SUVs etc at 70mph - I can't see the speed limit being raised any time soon. P*ss-taking 15mph extra on a 70 limit is one thing, but p*ss-taking 15mph over a 90 limit would be quite something else. Besides, given fuel prices the way they are, I've rediscovered the joys of 75mph..

 

[Advanced Driver]

70mph on your speedo could only be 60 in real life though

It could also be 70mph, if you don't know how accurate it is then you've got to be prepared for the worst. From passing the signs at the side of the road I know my speedo is pretty accurate. I've had a 30mph sign light up at no more than 31mph .

 

[Flashart]

Lorries don't do 70, so how will you get around that 'logic'?

I have overtaken Police doing 80, and they don't even blink an eye at it. Why would they....

I try and keep it under 100, but depends on the motorway in question [M10 / M45 for example ]

That 'logic' as you call it already exists. Its called speed limits. Suits me fine.

So lorries doing their maximum speed entitles me to do 80+mph? What page is that on in the highway code..?

Police may blink two eyes because...let me think about that....its breaking the law! You may have police that credit people with common sense (lucky you), speed cameras however do not have that built in. The holy law of "the flow of traffic" holds no water against a GATSO.

Regardless of how great cars are at braking, it still relies on the input of a fleshy thing behind the wheel. And whether it sits well with anyone or not, going quicker means you have more opportunities to make mistakes and less time to react.

 

[pdtrewern]

In response to The ugly ducklings comment about ABS does not decrease stopping distance...

I think this is all getting a bit anal.

My point was that cars build today are a whole lot safer than in the 60's. ABS will help you stop in a controlled manor. You could swerve (Sorry poor spelling!) around a stopped car with ABS.. Even if you did crash there is airbags etc. The german autobahn safety record is superior i believe to the english network. Speed does not kill any more than a lack of concentration. If im doing 135mph as my picture suggests, i am concentrating a hell of a lot more than i would be 'pottering' along at 70.

Follow europe's 130kph limit, and trucks to the inside. Technology should mean progress. Parts of the states even are 75 limit.

 

[Stu DemonD]

If everyone did 70 then that would be the "flow of traffic" would it not?

That 'logic' as you call it already exists. Its called speed limits. Suits me fine.

So lorries doing their maximum speed entitles me to do 80+mph? What page is that on in the highway code..?

First of all, you state everyone should stick at '70' - I said this was impossible, because not every vehicle can even attain '70', let alone stick to it.

Now you are mentioning the Highway Code - traffic Police allow it to happen [I don't recall seeing any GATSOs on any motorways I frequent] - next time I pass one at 80, I will get his number and report him for failing to do his duty

 

[dave]

It could also be 70mph, if you don't know how accurate it is then you've got to be prepared for the worst. From passing the signs at the side of the road I know my speedo is pretty accurate. I've had a 30mph sign light up at no more than 31mph .

mine does that but at 59 i really doing 50 and at over 120 i am only doing 106
hight speedo goes the less accurate it seems to be 2 other cars ive checked have beed over reading too

 

[Flashart]

First of all, you state everyone should stick at '70' - I said this was impossible, because not every vehicle can even attain '70', let alone stick to it.

Now you are mentioning the Highway Code - traffic Police allow it to happen [I don't recall seeing any GATSOs on any motorways I frequent] - next time I pass one at 80, I will get his number and report him for failing to do his duty

Right. I apologise for not making clear that I meant cars and motorbikes and doing a study of all vehicles that can attain 70mph. My point was if everyone who did 80 or 90 did 70 90 (in a car or on a motorbike but certainly not in a lorry, they can't get to 70 you know), that would be the flow of traffic.

You seem to think that speeding is somehow safe. At least that is how I have read your posts. Please correct me if this is not right. I mean I am sooo impressed that you try to keep under 100mph. Well done. Very mature.

As for the traffic police allowing it to happen, this is, I feel, a little known fact that you have stumbled on. I would love to know where you got your info. Maybe you trained as one. Or maybe you have just passed a few and they haven't pulled you over. Which clearly would mean they all let it happen.. I love that kind of genuine made up fact.

Obviously you have your point of view and I have mine. I respect that you have that though I just hope I don't end up on the same motorway as you!

 

[ScoobyChris]

You seem to think that speeding is somehow safe.

I don't think he's saying that at all - he's saying that speeding is not inherently dangerous, much like saying that doing 70 is not inherently safe.

Chris

 

[ThisBitterPill]

I respect that you have that though I just hope I don't end up on the same motorway as you!

If you do, he'll be the one flashing his lights at you to get out of the middle lane....

As for the traffic police allowing it to happen, this is, I feel, a little known fact that you have stumbled on. I would love to know where you got your info. Maybe you trained as one.

Sarcasm isn't your best point....Seriously though....Do you really think the Police have the time to pull over everyone doing over 70mph?....OK so that doesn't make it right to speed, but it's a fact....They won't pull you at 80mph....

And I have to agree with other posters....SPEED doesn't kill....BAD DRIVING kills....Put it this way....Who would you rather have behind you on the Motorway?....A 1000kg Panda you at 90mph or a 2700kg Range Rover behind you with the driver on the phone?

 

[pdtrewern]

I love a friendly forum!!!

 

[Advanced Driver]

I love a friendly forum!!!

I'd like to see this as a friendly discussion rather than an argument eace:

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

OMG, lol. This thread is amazing. Lol.

One of the main problems is people not using lanes properly. Just because your doing 85 dosen't mean you can sit in and hog the middle or outer lane. I always pull into the inside even if I'm to pull out again 10 seconds later. I also like sticking at 55MPH when my brain is in economy mode. If more people decided to use lanes properly, then this shouldn't incovience anyone else.

Another thing is people not reading the road, and not moving to the middle or outer lane until they're up your backside, often there is a car then overtaking them, and they need to slam on their brakes, before over taking and putting their foot down, increasing carbon foot print etc blah blah blah.

Jon.

 

[306maxi]

First of all, you state everyone should stick at '70' - I said this was impossible, because not every vehicle can even attain '70', let alone stick to it.

Now you are mentioning the Highway Code - traffic Police allow it to happen [I don't recall seeing any GATSOs on any motorways I frequent] - next time I pass one at 80, I will get his number and report him for failing to do his duty

I very much agree with you on this topic. I was in Scotland most of this week and drove most of the way back (from Berwick almost to Manchester) and I drove most of the way at about 85mph. I passed a couple of police cars doing about 80 or so and no there was no problem at all. What annoys me is the tools who drive along at 70 and when there are roadworks keep on driving at 70. A great example yesterday was on the M62 where there were signs showing "ANIMALS IN ROAD" and advising the slow down to 50 but a lot of people still kept on doing 70 or more. I don't think I went below 70 other than through roadworks and when there were animals in the road and was usually between 80 and 90 and I touched 100 a couple of times going downhill.

The thing about speed is that yes it can kill but when you are sensible about it you can get places quicker if you're in a hurry. I don't weave inbetween traffic, I leave enough distance between myself and the car in front to stop in (not just enough space to react), I also hang back when I want to overtake so that I can be up to an overtaking speed before I pull out to overtake rather than a lot of people who tailgate then pull out and only then accelerate and I try to keep other cars in mind when I'm driving rather than doing 90 past a group of cars who are doing 70 and wondering why one pulls out and I have to slam my brakes on.

You can still be a dangerous driver and keep to the speed limit or even be below. There was a guy yesterday who almost had a head on with another car on the A1 because he overtook a slower car but didn't go above the speed limit, people who keep to the speed limit when visibility/grip is bad, people who don't leave enough distance between them and the car in front, people who overtake when they can't see the road ahead and people who drive a lot slower than the limit when the road and weather conditions are bad which causes other drivers to do silly things.

The speed limit in your head should always be a variable one. When the road is clear, grip good, your tyres, brakes and suspension in good condition and everything is right then it's fairly safe to get some speed up. But if there's rain and spray, bad cambers, sharp corners or snow then it's normally not safe even to drive at the speed limit. Police officers are quite often understanding people and depending on the situation and the speed they might let you off. At Rally Australia one year I was doing some media work for a website and was in a hurry to get to the service park so was doing about 140kph in a 100 zone and a Police car came up in the distance, went past me and put it's lights on. I immediately pulled over and waited for them to catch up and had my licence ready. The guy appreciated that I hadn't made it difficult for him and let me off with a warning that if I got caught again that weekend that they would have my media pass taken off me. If I'd be doing over the speed limit on a twisty bit of road I doubt he would have been as lenient because that would have been dangerous.