dna database

[FDF]

Seriously, how would ID cards cut crime, no-one has ever explained that to me. The only thing we need is for the police to get up off their ar*es and do some detective work. Stop criminalising motorists and go after the rapists, murderers and terrorists with the same zeal.
Thats it from me.

 

[Ffoxy]

Question : how would an ID card help solve a violent crime?

Because when the Police scientist thingy arrives as a burglar exits your property they will have his picture on his I.D. card and a sample of his DNA!

Damnit! I wasnt gonna post again on this.

Great thread starter as usual though Custard!!

 

[custard]

proper official ID with biometric data could prevent
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=1418122007

 

[FDF]

Because when the Police scientist thingy arrives as a burglar exits your property they will have his picture on his I.D. card and a sample of his DNA!

Damnit! I wasnt gonna post again on this.

Great thread starter as usual though Custard!!

I knew it was something simple DOH!!!

 

[T14086]

look at the miscarriages of justice that have happened in the last 30 years

compared to those that were not............a fraction,0.05%?

one point though....you p*ssed in pub & dancing with girl who turns out later to get attacked,your DNA is on her but you never dont it? Just a pretty crap scenario but a possible one like the psycho bunny boiler that puts your DNA on her & accuses you of rape or breaking into her house etc?

I've nowt against the idea but it should be used in conjunction with other evidence.

 

[Nuova500]

Tackle the problems with society first, that will reduce crime and make the punishments far harsher to deter those pratts that still want to offend. The whole of Europe is too soft on criminals, they literally get away with murder.

 

[Chas Uno]

I can't believe you're OK with this. The size of this database will be massive, its almost certain mistakes will be made when you collate that much information. If a policeman knocked at your door and said they wanted to search your house because they think you could be involved in a crime, would you let them in? I wouldn't, not without a search warrant, and thats only your possessions. I've heard the 'nothing to hide nothing to fear arguement', its rubbish, you only have to look at the miscarriages of justice that have happened in the last 30 years.

Yup, things like the Birmingham Six and the Guidford Four WITHOUT DNA evidence. DNA evidence might have eliminated them from the enquiry right from the start rather than putting them in prison for decades. Instead they were imprisoned and then released on appeal because the Police had tampered with evidence. They might well be guilty but got released on a technicality. DNA evidence could mean they'd have been linked to the bombings straight off. We'll never know.

A Policeman wanting to search my house would need a warrant and a good reason for wanting to search my house. If they had both then I'd be more than happy to oblige. I've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, and perhaps if more people co-operated with the Police rather than stamping their feet and complaining about Civil Liberties being breached then the Police might be able to eliminate the innocent from the enquiries and put more energy into catching the scum of our country...

If I have not broken any laws the police / government have no business poking their noses into my affairs. If the police ask me for a DNA sample to exclude me from a particular crime I would give it gladly, providing I have an assurance that the sample and the record would be destroyed as soon as I am cleared.

The Police often have little evidence other than circumstancial when investigating a crime. To enable them to concentrate on the key areas that need investigation they need to eliminate as much as possible. So what's the problem of helping their investigation so that you can be eliminated from their enquiries rather than them wasting time investigating you because you aren't being co-operative?

Imagine the cost of this database then remember the governments record on IT projects. The passport office and medical training system both cost millions, if you remember private data from MTAS was publically available for a while. I dont want those idiots having access to my DNA record. How long would it be before the government decides its too expensive for taxpayers to finance this database? Suddenly they announce it will be self financing, they sell the information to the highest bidder, insurance companies, medical researchers, private health insurance companies and the rest. A few months later you get a letter from your life insurance company saying they will have to quadruple your premium because you're a worse risk than first thought. Then your GP gets in touch, suddenly he wants you to move to another practice, he wont say why. It might seem a bit extreme but your DNA is your private property, keep it safe or they will use it against you.

End of rant

You forget one thing. Your DNA information is covered by the data protection act. It cannot be sold nor disclosed to any other parties. If the Government ever did decide to sell or privatise such information I can guarantee you that 1984 will have come true and this world won't be worth living in anyway.

You make it sound like a DNA Database will cause us to ruled like the people in "Logan's Run". How much other information about you is currently being stored? Your medical records? Your taxation details? Your electoral role details? Your National Insurance Number? The car you own? The insurance you have? The CCTV footage of you every time you go to certain areas? Your Passport which you cannot fly without if you want to go to certain countries?

In an ideal world there'd be no need for a DNA database. However, thanks to the scum of society it is needed and if it takes murderers/ rapists and criminal scum off the streets and possibly prevents future terrorist attacks then I'm all for it. It can also be used to deal with illegal immigration, something many of the UK people complain about. You can forge a passport but you can't forge your DNA

 

[FDF]

I didn't want to post on this again:bang: . If local councils can sell your details from the electoral register to marketing companies, government will be able to sell your details from a DNA database, it depends how the legislation creating it is phrased. I would rather that refusing to give a DNA sample to exclude you from an investigation was an offence, if the sample and the record were destroyed afterwards. You will solve more serious crime with DNA, and the guilty should have their DNA stored on a database. The innocent should have a choice about what is done with their DNA record. I don't believe the police will send scientific officers to every break in and car theft to gather DNA. Nuisance crime will carry on unaffected. People opposed to this are NOT bleeding heart liberals, I am concerned about the amount control government is taking for itself and what future governments will do with information on a database that might have been setup with the most honourable of intentions. Anyway I suspect they already have mine.

One last thing, the 7/7 and 21/7 bombings would not have been prevented by a DNA database, suicide bombers don't worry about evidence.

 

[custard]

you can choose not to be on the register that is open to sell.
its on the form,just tick one box

 

[jug]

look at it this way, the dna register already has millions of people on it, including me for the last 6 years, and so far i havent heard of a single case where it has caused problems of false accusation or prosecution. if that was an issue then surely the press would use such examples in their scaremongering.

why would anything change significantly if more people are added to the register? prosecution will still have the same requirements, a dna sample is not proof of anything by itself, same as fingerprints or even an eye witness. much of the weakness in our legal system comes from the protection mechansims designed to prevent false prosecution. that will not change. a more comprehensive dna database will simply be a more useful tool. it is nothing new.

if anyone seriously believes dna profiles will be sold to insurance companies you need to stop reading tabloids. that is a political scare tactic designed to encourage distrust of the current govt. always consider the bias of information sources, especially in the media. this isnt america, we should know better than believing the spin.

 

[Ffoxy]

I believe in Spin!

Shane Warne... Monty Panasar...

 

[Chas Uno]

look at it this way, the dna register already has millions of people on it, including me for the last 6 years, and so far i havent heard of a single case where it has caused problems of false accusation or prosecution. if that was an issue then surely the press would use such examples in their scaremongering.

why would anything change significantly if more people are added to the register? prosecution will still have the same requirements, a dna sample is not proof of anything by itself, same as fingerprints or even an eye witness. much of the weakness in our legal system comes from the protection mechansims designed to prevent false prosecution. that will not change. a more comprehensive dna database will simply be a more useful tool. it is nothing new.

if anyone seriously believes dna profiles will be sold to insurance companies you need to stop reading tabloids. that is a political scare tactic designed to encourage distrust of the current govt. always consider the bias of information sources, especially in the media. this isnt america, we should know better than believing the spin.

Well put Jug. A bit of realism at last in a world distorted by gutter tabloids and the buzz word of the year - 'spin'. :spin:

 

[Fivehundred]

get a grip, this isnt tv this is real life we're talking about.

Effective databases is why thev Germans were able to round up the Jews in Holland so effectively, all they had to do was check the records. That isn't some fantasy scenario that happened in the fairly recent past.

 

[Chas Uno]

Effective databases is why thev Germans were able to round up the Jews in Holland so effectively, all they had to do was check the records. That isn't some fantasy scenario that happened in the fairly recent past.

Then again, there are already loads of databases with loads of very personal and confidential information held about us by the Government and their various departments. Adding DNA information will allow absolute confirmation of the individual concerned.

As I mentioned earlier, if ethnic cleansing was taking place in the UK then even if your genes were perfect would you still want to live here? I doubt it. Hitler and the persecution of the Jews is a valid point but he was an extremist dictator who came to power amidst turbulent political conditions coming up to 100 years ago. It's unlikely such a situation could happen again in the UK or most of Europe, though obviously the Yugoslavian conflict of the 90's was an exception but didn't need DNA details for the persecution to take place.

Records and databases about us all already exist. DNA just allows them to be refined even further and have great implications in linking and identifying criminal activities. The information would also offer great benefits when it came to diagnosing and treating medical conditions. If you're worried about such personal medical information being stored about you then bear in mind it already is with your doctor and/ or hospital...