Technical DIYing brake pipes..

[g4jvf]

Seicento Sporting SPI 2000

Right, on to my next job.

When I had the wheel arch liner out to replace water pump/cam belt, I noticed
some lumpy corrosion on the metal brake pipe as it loops over to enter the inside of the body (front drivers side).
Metal pipes on both rears were changed at a garage earlier this year.
Quite fancy doing this myself to learn more about the job.

Done plenty of reading and my list is for some copper/nickle 3/16 pipe.
Some M10x1 fittings.
New flexi pipes to both sides with new clips.
Brake fluid.
Brake spanner.
A bleed kit of some description, a pipe cutter and a flaring tool..

Now then, any suggestion for a not hugely expensive flaring tool...
This one seems to have good reviews?
Draper Expert 23312 SAE

Only problem I foresee is that the bleed valves in the calipers look well rusted..
One is fairly rounded off, the other is OK in shape but very rusty. I've been soaking them for a week or so now whilst doing other jobs.

Any advice or gotchas would be welcome before I start...
Thanks
Phil

 

[fingers99]

You can get replacement nipples in stainless. Use a 6 sided socket to undo them. A sharp tap with a not very big hammer will often help.

For the pipes, I'm not sure I'd worry about DIY for the two. I think Fluffy (Big Mick at eurocarcare.net) has them on the shelf in cunifer.

 

[blu73]

Yeah to be honest i would probably just buy the solid brake lines as well, ask Big Mick and if not try on Shop4Parts. Failing that just call your local fiat dealership, few brake lines won't be that expensive even from them..

part no. 46479679 - drivers side solid line
part no. 46467840 - passenger side solid line
part no. 46481635 - flexi brake line (same both sides)
part no. 994922 - solid line to flexi clip

Check your discs and pads, this would be a good time to swap them for new items.

And bleeding kits, the suction type are better than the type that use pressure on the reservoir cap - although cheapest option is to get a helper and do the old pipe in a jar method.

Once you have changed the lines, do full bleed in correct order but keep going on the rears until you get nice clean fresh liquid coming out and not just until the bubbles stop - the fresh liquid is pretty obvious when it starts coming out, much lighter than old fluid - and make sure you keep the reservoir topped up during or you will have to start bleeding all over again.

 

[g4jvf]

Great information again guys, thank you

I'll have a word with Mick and see how much everything will be.
Trying to learn as much as I can as I work through the list of stuff that needs/needed doing on my Sei.

Will have a go at shifting the caliper bleed nipples tomorrow.
They have been well soaked for some time. If they move then fine but if not I guess I'm looking at a pair of new calipers

Out of interest, re the pipe flaring, there seems to be lots of conflicting info on the Net.
I know it's 3/16 pipe but is the flare on Fiats SAE double flare or something else?
Also, I will fit new nipples. Am I right in thinking they are M8x1.25?

A mate is loaning me a flaring tool and a bit of spare pipe just to play with and get a feel for the job if I ever need to make my own pipe.

Fiat fixing is becoming strangely addictive:devil:

Phil

 

[g4jvf]

Bad news on the caliper bleed nipples..
They are seriously stuck in on both sides. Been soaking for a couple of weeks and have tapped, rocked back and forth but they are definitely twisting enough to shear off. Looks like somebody rounded them a bit in the past..

Anyhoo, given that and how cruddy the caliper bodies are, I've ordered a couple of replacements. Expensive but then I've saved loads in labour charges DIYing the previous jobs.

Still interested to know if the pipe flares are DIN or SAE double flares if anybody has done any pipe DIYing on these.....
I'll know when I take the pipes out but that will have to wait till the bits arrive.

Spotted a slight weep on a rear piston so a new one of those is coming too...


Phil

 

[fingers99]

I think they're single flare. All are the same fitting anyway, so if you were to undo the solid hose to the master cylinder (or the leaking slave) you'd see what was what.

 

[blu73]

i believe the oem pipes are a bubble flare (single DIN), but not 100%

I have a cheap nasty flaring tool (like this Laser 2943 Flaring Tool 10pc: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike) and it does work but you opften have to do the flare a few times before it will seat 100% properly and seal - which can be mightly annoying. The flares it makes are not exactly the same as the oem pipes either if you hold them upto each other once flared.

 

[g4jvf]

Cheers guys...

I guess I'll know by looking into the new rear cylinder and or the new flex pipes when they arrive to see if it's a bubble flare or not...guess I'll be looking at either a concave or convex shape in the new fittings....

Still fancy getting a flare tool and learning the dark art....
One with lots of good reviews is this one.
[ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-SAE-Hand-Held-Flaring-16-inch/dp/B008YFX2LM[/ame]

It's sold in either DIN or SAE hence me wanting to be sure of getting the right one...

Will be ringing Mick on monday about something else and will ask if he knows off hand which Fiat use.
I know both front pipes need replacing and to be honest, the end of the rear pipe which goes into the weepy rear cylinder doesn't look all that great so investing in a flare tool may we worthwhile. Then theres the front to back runs as well which could be replaced at some point...

Phil

 

[g4jvf]

Re brake fluid...

My local filling station has this...

CARLUBE brake fluid
DOT 4
Synthetic based SAE J-1704

Is this OK for slurping into my Sei when the time comes?




Phil

 

[fingers99]

It'll be fine.

 

[g4jvf]

Thanks


Phil

 

[g4jvf]

Right
Decided to make my own pipes just to learn a new skill to be honest...

Got everything together, just waiting for a couple of nice days as I'm working outside.

The flares are definitely bubble DIN flares and the DIN version of the Draper tool makes superb flares every time. Really easy to do.
The brake pipe nuts are M10x1 shorts.
Here's a flare I've done with the tool..

This is the tool I bought


Fingers crossed all goes well

Phil

 

[blu73]

well thats certainly better than my crappy one.

remember to put your unions on before you do the flares and that they are the right way round

best of luck

 

[fingers99]

well thats certainly better than my crappy one.

remember to put your unions on before you do the flares and that they are the right way round

:yeahthat:

Can get very painful (and/or expensive) if you do that with braided stainless!

 

[g4jvf]

No longer a brake pipe virgin

Changed the weepy brake cylinder and the pipe to the flexie...greased the handbrake lever doodah...
All went well apart from getting the old union off the flexie which caused some cussing but that's one corner done...

 

[g4jvf]

Replacement front calipers have arrived

Phil

 

[fingers99]

Paint them quick! And stainless bleed nipples!

 

[blu73]

:yeahthat:

 

[g4jvf]

Already put stainless bleed nipples in them

Will paint them before they go on..
Taking the caliper carriers off tomorrow to get them on the bench wire wheel before painting those too..

Is hammerite OK to use?

 

[blu73]

you need high temperature paint, brakes get pretty hot...