Technical Cruise Control shuts down as soon as I start driving. MES troubleshooting ongoing...

[jackwhoo]

Will probably do. I already checked and I can get an aftermarket clutch-switch for around 30€. But I'm also not the type of guy to keep changing parts until the problem is eventually solved. I bought MES to avoid that type of "replace-until-repaired"-jobs.
And I also believe this is what a technical forum is all about. Helping each other with ones knowledge and previous experiences.
Moreover, if someone in the future has the same problem or symptoms, they can go a long way with everything mentioned here above.

I apologise I was under impression using mes you had already decided the clutch sensor is defective and you needed a little encouragement to act .
J

 

[the green vanper]

Great troubleshooting!

But it is strange to me that some of the sensors are doubled - especially that it is the case of the clutch sensor. Which really can mess with how the system gets it. I'm very interested to see what it will show with a new sensor

Can you post the part number, please? I'd like to see how does it look.

Have you tried another model? On my 5.1 version every injection module on the 2.3 engine shows 2 clutch pedals. The one on the 3.0 engine shows only one. It would be good to confirm if the pedal is the same. Could be a bug in MES - or a bug in the ECU module

But of course it can be a feature of the clutch pedal, that is has 2 sensors...

Same question for the external temperature sensor. Personally I've never heard of a second one. But I had nothing to do with the newer Ducatos.

Pity there's no documentation online on the x290 and liftings

 

[Simonini]

I apologise I was under impression using mes you had already decided the clutch sensor is defective and you needed a little encouragement to act .
J

No need to apologise, we both want the problem fixed! I guess you're just more convinced of a faulty clutch sensor then I am
Also English is not my native language, so it's possible some of my sentences read a bit odd...

 

[Simonini]

Great troubleshooting!

But it is strange to me that some of the sensors are doubled - especially that it is the case of the clutch sensor. Which really can mess with how the system gets it. I'm very interested to see what it will show with a new sensor

Can you post the part number, please? I'd like to see how does it look.

Have you tried another model? On my 5.1 version every injection module on the 2.3 engine shows 2 clutch pedals. The one on the 3.0 engine shows only one. It would be good to confirm if the pedal is the same. Could be a bug in MES - or a bug in the ECU module

But of course it can be a feature of the clutch pedal, that is has 2 sensors...

Same question for the external temperature sensor. Personally I've never heard of a second one. But I had nothing to do with the newer Ducatos.

Pity there's no documentation online on the x290 and liftings

Part number of the switch I disassembled is in the first post: clutch-switch (part nr. 519057040).

I'm just not quite convinced about this faulty switch yet. I find the discrepancy between the signal in the BCM (Body Control Module) and the ECU (Engine Control Unit) a bit odd.
In the ECU I read a clean signal 0% -> 99% along the travel of the clutch pedal. At about 30%, the clutch pedal switches from RELEASED to PRESSED. Clutch pedal contact 2 stays RELEASED along the whole travel.
Then in the BCM, the clutch pedal signal also stays RELEASED along the whole travel. I think the CC is controled from the BCM?
It still makes me wonder if there is an extra switch somewhere.
The switch I mentioned above has three connectors, two fixed ones and one sliding contact, with resistance measurements in the first post.
Could it be possible there is a hydraulic switch somewhere in the piping between the master and slave cilinder of the hydraulic clutch?

 

[the green vanper]

According to ePER the same clutch switch is used both on 2,3 and 3,0 liter engines with manual transmission post 2011.

So, why in MES it shows other options for both engines?

 

[Simonini]

According to ePER the same clutch switch is used both on 2,3 and 3,0 liter engines with manual transmission post 2011.

View attachment 454681

So, why in MES it shows other options for both engine?

How can you search for part numbers in MES?

 

[the green vanper]

I was not looking for part numbers in MES, but in ePER (link is available at the bottom of the forum banner). You can search by VIN, part number or browse through categories.

What I ment is that MES gives two clutch sensors readings on the 2,3 liter engine and only one on the 3,0 liter engine. But physically the clutch sensor should be the same in both engines.

 

[jackwhoo]

Is there a totally separate switch near the top of clutch pedal similar to a brake light switch?

 

[Simonini]

Update on the problem...

First of all, I checked, double- and triplechecked if there is a separate switch near the top of the pedal, or even in the hydraulic piping of the clutch. Turns out there isn't.

Second I went to a friend of mine. He has a 2017 Ducato L3H2 2.3 130 EURO6b, double EGR without Ad Blue. With a working CC. Checked and he has the same clutch-switch (partnr. 519057040). Connected his Ducato with MES and did the same checks as I did with mine:
- Clutch contact in BCM stays RELEASED along the whole pedal-travel.
- Clutch pedal position in ECU goes from 5% -> 98%.
- Clutch pedal signal in ECU switches to PRESSED at about 30% pedal-travel.
- Clutch contact 2 in ECU stays RELEASED along the whole pedal-travel.

Looks to me, my clutch pedal switch isn't the problem to why my CC shuts down...
But what is...?

 

[jackwhoo]

Look at cc switch function using mes in engine ecu , look if it's normal.
Get someone else to drive while you watch for glitch in cc switch using mes

 

[jackwhoo]

Look for vehicle speed in engine ecu....does it look correct? Does it glitch?

 

[the green vanper]

Update on the problem...

First of all, I checked, double- and triplechecked if there is a separate switch near the top of the pedal, or even in the hydraulic piping of the clutch. Turns out there isn't.

Second I went to a friend of mine. He has a 2017 Ducato L3H2 2.3 130 EURO6b, double EGR without Ad Blue. With a working CC. Checked and he has the same clutch-switch (partnr. 519057040). Connected his Ducato with MES and did the same checks as I did with mine:
- Clutch contact in BCM stays RELEASED along the whole pedal-travel.
- Clutch pedal position in ECU goes from 5% -> 98%.
- Clutch pedal signal in ECU switches to PRESSED at about 30% pedal-travel.
- Clutch contact 2 in ECU stays RELEASED along the whole pedal-travel.

Looks to me, my clutch pedal switch isn't the problem to why my CC shuts down...
But what is...?

In my post #10 on the 1st page you've got an fragment of the documentation (online eLearn) with the part in bold showing which sensors / elements have an influence on the functionning of the cruise control system.

I'd try checking them one by one. And eventually swapping with the friend's van. Start by the lever, the cover holds on 4 screws, then the switch + the plug are only plastic clips.

 

[lycopersicum]

For what it's worth, I had a problem with a blocked DPF and a faulty injector a while back. One of the symptoms was the cruise control randomly deactivating while driving. There was no error message other than "cruise control deactivated". The check engine light only came on later as the problem got worse. Once the DPF and injector were changed the issue with the cruise control disappeared.

Morale of the story, the ECU can deactivate cruise control in response to transient fault conditions even when they don't trigger the check engine light or store a code.

On the other hand the pedals merely suspend cruise control without extinguishing the green light on the dash or displaying the deactivation message.