Technical Clutch Replacement query

[Gerryf]

Hi all,

I think my 1.2 8v Panda needs a new clutch, the pedal is very heavy and the 'bite' is high on the pedal travel.

I did have it replaced before by a local garage, but from the start the pedal was heavy and it has only lasted 30k miles or so, so maybe they only changed the friction plate? It was not a cheap fix, as it cost over £400 and I am wondering if they fitted a cheap replacement instead of OEM or similar?

Therefore, I am reluctant to go back to them, so can anyone recomend a garage or mobile mechanic (local to Redhill, Surrey) who is experienced in fitting Panda clutches. I would like to have a quality unit (like a LUK or Sachs) fitted and the Clutch fork replaced at the same time. Hopefully someone on the forum will be able to recomend somwhere, (and advise on costs) but if not, I am a fairly competent and well equiped home mechanic, and have fitted a few (simpler) clutches in my youth, so I quite fancy having a go myself.

Can anyone advise on how complicated the process is? Also, I will probably look at replacing the master and slave cylinder if they look dodgy, so can they be replaced at a later date fairly easily, or is it better to do it all at the same time?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice - and if anyone is is the Redhill, Surrey area, and who would like to help out with the fitting of this (for reciprocal help and/or remumeration please let me know.

Thanks, Gerry

 

[koalar]

I can't recommend a garage

different clutches do indeed feel different

a three piece kit costs between £40 and £60 retail they will get them at trade prices

On a ramp with air tool it can be taken out and put back in an hour rushing. So say two hours labour

I have taken the selector off but have never replaced them. The Bush just knocks out its like 2 or 3 minutes but dont know the price


however heres the reason for the reply


Why has it failed after only 30K miles. Even a cheap £40 clutch should hold up in a low power car for over 100K


There's loads of possible causes. Including poor fitting. If its slipping it could be oil contaminations from a leaking oil seal onto the friction plate ? or a worn out flywheel.


there is an inspection hole at the top. Without the engine running put you finger in. Is the inside covered in oil or powder


If its oil it might need more than just the clutch changing

 

[DaveMcT]

Clutch master and slave cylinders are not hard to replace. If you keep the original pipes and bleed the system total costs are around £100. If you buy the pre-filed master with pipe and reservoir the cost will go over £200 but its literally plug and play.

Pre-filled master with pipe (OEM spec) -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-500...864441?hash=item4db7aa2af9:g:poYAAOSwKWhdnFit

Bare master -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-M...863830&hash=item365b257c5d:g:~jMAAOSwUD5e7WeN

OEM spec slave -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LuK-CLUT...4cd9b12ce75cdbaf349b|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524

 

[koalar]

has it always been heavy since the last replacement


same with the bite point. Has it got progressively higher or always like this

I doubt there will be anything wrong with the release fork.


They do wear on the ends. But it almost impossible to bend as its two very short levers connected via a sturdy rod. I have never seen one stop a clutch working. But it must be possible there's plenty for sale. Highly unlikely it will need replacing.


The hydraulics do fail a bit more often. Usually squeaky, pedal sticking down or no disengaging, not what you are complain of. I doubt this is your problem



unfortunately I suspect any problem is hidden internally. Except for a quick oil test through the inspection hole. If you aren't doing the job yourself. Yo will need to find someone reliable

 

[DaveMcT]

I suspect koalar is right about the oil leak.

 

[koalar]

I suspect koalar is right about the oil leak.

I am 35/55 on flywheel vs oil and 10 something else Oil is the only one you can test for without stripping the car down.

if the input shaft is wobbling around it can make the release stiff. But so are some brands of clutch.

unfortunately a clutch change is both an easy job to do on the Panda and an easy job to mess up on any car

which is why you need someone reliable if you aren't doing the job yourself.

 

[DaveMcT]

Another issue it's Fiat drilling alloy case bolt holes right through. The threads get corroded and seized at the bottom end. You can "crack" them loose but the go tight after a turn or two. Keep going and the oxidised alloy (trapped in the end of the bolt) tears out the threads as it goes.

 

[rmjbn1]

£400 seems in the right area for a clutch change, but it would be very surprising if they only did the friction plate.

As I understand, a stiff pedal can indicate a worn friction plate, or damaged pressure plate, but it's strange if you say it's been like that since it was changed.

This forum member found the pressure plate bolts were loose on their clutch (only specified to 10Nm?), tightening them apparently solved the heavy pedal action.

There are also some reports of the pedal itself becoming stiff on its shaft - it can be popped off the master cylinder to check.

None of this explains the high biting point, though. I've read some reports of slave cylinder causing a low biting point. Could be hydraulic.

My clutch fork was fine at 105k miles, the release bearing had taken the wear. I've read that the fork bushes can wear, so that might be a possibility.

If you've done a clutch before, the Panda's isn't too challenging. I'm no mechanic and did mine on my drive this month. I only needed an assistant to help hold the gearbox up to get it back on. Access isn't too bad. How long it takes might depend on how easily the driveshafts and battery tray come out. These could take 3 minutes or 3 hours (as in my case). I found this video very helpful.

 

[DaveMcT]

This modified ball separator made removing the driver's side drive shaft a two minute job. Please excuse the scruffy welds - my extension lead wasn't coping with the power demand.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/484547-drive-shaft-separator-tool.html?484547=#post4570510

 

[koalar]

lets get back on topic

the original question was

can anyone recommend a garage in the Redhill, Surrey area

I can't help

anyone.

 

[DaveMcT]

My garage in Devon is a member of this scheme.

https://www.goodgaragescheme.com

 

[rmjbn1]

The mobile clutch service who posted the video I linked to cover that area. I have no experience of them, but they've covered a fair few FIATs on their YouTube channel. Website here.

I know an excellent guy in Amersham, Bucks, but probably a bit far from you...

One benefit of doing it yourself is you could check the gearbox input shaft for play. I'm sure it's not related to your issue, but the input shaft bearing is known to wear out on these boxes.

Personally, if I were to do a clutch again with this gearbox, I would change the input shaft bearing and seal as a matter of course. Gear change is much smoother and the car is quieter. It also removes the risk of gearbox oil leaking on to your new clutch. It means pulling the box apart a bit, but nothing too scary and there's a great guide to it here. I recently did mine here.

A mobile clutch service could of course check for play in the input shaft, but I'd imagine taking the box apart would be outside their remit.