Technical Checking cam belt?

[strudelpus]

Hi Folks,
Been a while since i was last on here...
My previous 1.2 is now dead after Eunice dropped a tree on it
I now have a 1.1 '10 with 71k miles on it. The aux belt looks very recent but no record of the cambelt been done. So is it possible to move the covers enough to have a look without taking out the engine mount etc?

 

[dac69er]

Just change the cambelt. You cant really gauge the age and condition of the belt just by looking at it in position.

 

[koalar]

the cover is slit in two halfs. On my car I can remove two bolts and the top half unclips and slides out.

It will not tell you how long ago or how many miles its done though

I know they are pretty bad at 10 years. Glazed hard surface and cracked. If the writing is very clear its probably fairly new

2010 is not a safe engine.

look at all the documentation, you might find a garage receipt. People tend to use the same ones. Phone the garage they may have a record.

look around the car. Covers, sun visor, owners manual, service booklet and so on. No sticker with the mileage of a change I would assume it hasn't been done at a garage for some time.

 

[jrkitching]

2010 is not a safe engine.

Are you sure? The OP has a 1.1; never produced in Euro5 form with a VVT engine.

The collective forum wisdom is that the Euro4 engines (including all 1.1's, and the 60HP 1.2 non-VVT version used until mid-late 2010) are cambelt safe; later VVT engines are not.

That said, better to change it than be left stranded in the fast lane of a smart motorway.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure? The OP has a 1.1; never produced in Euro5 form with a VVT engine.

The collective forum wisdom is that the Euro4 engines (including all 1.1's, and the 60HP 1.2 non-VVT version used until mid-late 2010) are cambelt safe; later VVT engines are not.

That said, better to change it than be left stranded in the fast lane of a smart motorway.

nope not sure

it definitely gets very murky around interference engines

I was under the impression

187A1.000 FIAT Panda (1.1) both square and round oil cap - INTERFERENCE

according to autodata which could be wrong

1.1 has a slightly higher compression ratio I believe

i could easily be miss informed. I am not sure how you could find out 100%

 

[DaveMcT]

A cam belt that's showing cracks around the timing teeth will have probably already failed. Unfortunately a belt that's about to start cracking and fail will look visibly normal. The full kit including water pump costs about £50. If you are handy with spanners it's not a hard job to change the belt.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure? The OP has a 1.1; never produced in Euro5 form with a VVT engine.

The collective forum wisdom is that the Euro4 engines (including all 1.1's, and the 60HP 1.2 non-VVT version used until mid-late 2010) are cambelt safe; later VVT engines are not.

That said, better to change it than be left stranded in the fast lane of a smart motorway.

"Does anyone know if all fiat 1.1 fire engines where freewheeling ? i know the early single point spi injection ones were, reason i ask is got a call about a 53 plate panda 1.1 that cambelt has gone and they are saying some valves have gone with it

thanks ."

I struggled to find anyone who has had a 1.1 let go on here. I have quoted from another forum above. Seem to confirm autodata is correct to me.

 

[koalar]

A cam belt that's showing cracks around the timing teeth will have probably already failed .

really ???

This belt has probably never been changed. Someone had rounded off the engine mount bolts and then just left it for 10 years

and was still going strong

 

[Dave lee]

I have seen dozens of posts about Panda cambelts. I agree with JRK.
1.1 and 1.2 60hp safe. 69hp not safe.

I think the belt will often last longer than the water pump. Best to change it.

 

[irc]

Definitely had a 2004 1.1 cambelt failure (actually the tensioner detonated) with no valve damage.
Just re-timed with new belt, tensioner and water pump and it carried on for miles with no problems...
(Other than the dire lack of servicing throughout it's life. Poor thing probably only got oil changes every couple of years when it got dumped on my driveway with a note saying something had broken and the local garage said it was going to be expensive. Rust in the sills eventually put it out of its misery)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've followed the "interference or not interference" thing with great interest. From all I've read and heard from mechanic friends still working in the trade and from what I've seen with the Pandas we've owned I believe all 1.1's are non interference. The 60hp 1.2 was non interference until the VVT cam pulley came in with the 69hp engine - somewhere around late 2010/early 2011. I'm not sure when it appeared in the 500. At this time I believe if it's got a solid cam sprocket then it's non interference. VVT means watch out! However I'm not infallible and very happy for someone to tell me I'm wrong.

 

[jrkitching]

I'm not sure when it appeared in the 500.

The 1.2 500 has used the 69HP VVT engine since launch; there are no cambelt safe 1.2 500's.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The 1.2 500 has used the 69HP VVT engine since launch; there are no cambelt safe 1.2 500's.

Thanks for that jrk. Another little gem of info filed away for future reference.

 

[strudelpus]

Cheers folks for the replies,
Managed to pull the top cover aside enough to peek at the belt, and it's very similar to the pic posted above so will deffo get it done.

 

[koalar]

Found this

"I doubt Autodata said the Panda MK3 1.1 and 1.2 (round or square cap) are interference to cover themselves.

They stated the 1.2 (188A4.000) Punto 1.2 and Seicento 1.1 are freewheeling."

Well I am more confused than ever

I checked on WOW (2014 version) and that list all Panda engines as interference

I also thought that maybe they were just playing it safe so checked some Punto's and some are listed as freewheeling

Which seems to match the statement I found above.

where did the information that the 60hp and 1.1 in the Panda are safe originate from. Because you can get away without damage when a belt snaps doesn't make it safe. Has anyone put a piston at top dead centre and spun the camshaft around. Looking at the 69HP it looks like if the belt snaps you would stand a Good chance it would survive.

 

[DaveMcT]

To be honest this is all academic nonsense. If the cam belt fails best case (1) you just stop. Worst case (2) the engine is toast or at least needs expensive repairs. BUT - there's another worst case - (3) engine stops in the fast lane and you can't get to safety before the car stops rolling along. Nobody need that, and the bad possibilities are endless. Just change the ****ng belt, tensioner & water pump and be done with it. It's an easy enough job so not serious money even when paying full cost labour rates.

 

[koalar]

To be honest this is all academic nonsense. If the cam belt fails best case (1) you just stop. Worst case (2) the engine is toast or at least needs expensive repairs. BUT - there's another worst case - (3) engine stops in the fast lane and you can't get to safety before the car stops rolling along. Nobody need that, and the bad possibilities are endless. Just change the ****ng belt, tensioner & water pump and be done with it. It's an easy enough job so not serious money even when paying full cost labour rates.

It more for knowledge but it does make a difference

we have all been follow the same advice. The 60HP was safe and the 69HP wasn't. Read it here many times

"Flat spot" on acceleration | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi guys. Bought a little Panda 1.2 Young a couple of months ago. As I always do when buying a used vehicle, I serviced it, had the cambelt changed, changed the gear oil and anti freeze. The little car has been a joy, but for one problem. At first, it tended to die underfoot while pulling away...

www.fiatforum.com

and if it turns out to be incorrect there could lead to a disaster

could still be correct. The only data I have access to is WOW which list the same as autodata all Panda engines interference. They could be wrong. Where did the 60hp and 69hp advice originate from, has anyone ever checked it

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I think I'm with Dave on this. It would be "nice" if the engines we think are non interference really are but I'm certainly not going to ignore or take chances with my belt change intervals just because there's a good chance my engine is not going to wreck itself moments before a 40 ton behemoth runs up my backside on the city bypass! So, for me, this is interesting quiz trivia but not much more than that.

 

[irc]

I think I'm with Dave on this. It would be "nice" if the engines we think are non interference really are but I'm certainly not going to ignore or take chances with my belt change intervals just because there's a good chance my engine is not going to wreck itself moments before a 40 ton behemoth runs up my backside on the city bypass! So, for me, this is interesting quiz trivia but not much more than that.

I do always change the belts/tensioner/waterpump on any that I own or purchase on behalf of someone else, unless I know the history of the car.
Unfortunately 169 Pandas are often in the "bangernomics" category now, so I have seen quite a few where the owner won't pay up for a cam belt change unless it breaks. Annoying, but I guess it's human nature.

The earliest 1.2 169 Panda I ever purchased was a 2004 with 165k on the clock, and it had every receipt down to sidelight bulbs in the (fully documented) history. But no cam belt in 16 years!

 

[DaveMcT]

Unfortunately 169 Pandas are often in the "bangernomics" category now, so I have seen quite a few where the owner won't pay up for a cam belt change unless it breaks. Annoying, but I guess it's human nature.

Which is why I made my point. Panda is often cheap almost disposable transport. However, some things are just not worth skimping especially when costs to avoid the issue are so low.