Panda (Classic) Charmanda(er) - mania continued......

[pandamaniac]

I bet he used up all his WD40 sorting the poor starting so had none left to blacken the bumpers.
Dave

 

[blu73]

Nope they are left like that on purpose. I have proper plastic dye kit and they need to have no residue from stuff like back to black. Was gonna be a surprise but now you are questioning my cleaning I will fess up lol

 

[blu73]

right then guru's, want some opinions please...

So whipped head off today and started stripping it down, my new valve spring compressors haven't turned up so got it right down to the point of just needing to take the valves out - given it a good clean up. Realised I didn't have new front camshaft seal or new o-ring for dizzy so ordered some today. So that all coming along fine, few little bits to arrive and I can put that all back together.
Here's how the head stands at the mo


So then I thought before i pack up for the day I'll clean up the pistons a bit. The came up really nice, clearly uptil this smoking recently its beein burning nice and clean in general.


However, this brings me to my little uncertainy. Now cylinders themselves all look pretty good really, but i noticed that on cylinder 2 there is the slightest of vertical scoring - its really hard to see and I can't really get a pic of that, but also when you crank the engine over by hand that piston leaves a small smear of oil everytime, see video. And there is a tiny mark on the edge of the piston, see pic below. I'm not sure if I should be worried about it really. All 4 combustion chambers on the head looked pretty clean, certainly no.2 didn't look any dirtier than the rest as i would expect if this was the source of the smoke its making. I think its probably ok and I am just being paranoid, maybe even just a tiny touch of kitchem roll i was wiping the piston tops with is stuck just where i can't see it down the side.

Anyhow, here is the video, please throw your opinions at me.


Here is the little bit of damage on that piston i mentioned.

 

[werdna]

Nope they are left like that on purpose. I have proper plastic dye kit and they need to have no residue from stuff like back to black. Was gonna be a surprise but now you are questioning my cleaning I will fess up lol

That'll the secret marmite mod ?

 

[blu73]

No that's something else entirely, who doesn't like fresh looking shiny bumpers?!?

 

[blu73]

Well, as no-one has responded above the above video i guess I will just rebuild the head and whack everything back together and see how it goes. Valve spring compressor just arrived so i guess i will get out of my PJs, have some brekkie and go crack on.

There is a another engine idea brewing in the background but will have to wait and see on that one, may or may not happen.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

What kind of smoke were you getting Chris, was it constant; white/blue or just on rev-up?

 

[blu73]

Only after coasting for about a mile downhill. Bluey oil smoke. No smoke at idle (hot or cold), no smoke on startup and nothing under load. Which points to valve seals really which is why it's apart. Head is fully rebuilt now. Awaiting oil and coolant delivery before I can run it.

Got people coming to stay for the weekend so prob not gonna get chance to finish this up. 2moro will be doing some work and some tidying.

Hopefully I will have some spare time next week to finish up as all my weekends for quite a while are busy now.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Yes I'd agree with you on that. In which case I wouldn't worry about the scoring and marking on the piston. If it's possible that the chamber with the score was letting in oil then it would appear that the engine is dealing with it no problem. Was there any difference in the colour of the spark plug that came from that chamber?

 

[blu73]

nope, nothing noticeable... All in all it looks like a healthy engine really, i just never experienced a piston leaving a little trail of oil behind before, I am leaning towards it just being a little bit of kitchen roll (which i was using to wipe it down) has got stuck down the edge. Like I say though, stick it back together as we shall see lol.

 

[blu73]

well i got one of them customs charge cards this morning, this can only be marmite mod. Hate these customs things, actual tax is only £3.42 but the handline fee is £8 - daylight robbery!

This brings me to a nasty thought, if UK is not in the EU - does this mean every single part we buy from say Italy, where its easiest to find the hard to find panda parts, thats over £15 we will have to pay £8 handling fee every time? Takes the proverbial slightly that the government request less than half in tax as royal mail think is acceptable to charge as a fee. Loads of stuff on this topic online and they are not breaking any laws, but morally i think they are taking the **** as there is no other option for international deliveries. Amazes me that say UPS or DHL (big international transport companies) cannot use there infrastructure to import stuff and deliver it themselves and it have nothing to do with royal mail - royal mail would have competition then and the prices would have to be less extortionate. Grrrr

Anyhoo, I am waiting for DHL to bring parcels so can't go to post office til after that, and of course the sorting office is only open til 12pm on weekdays and shut saturday and sunday, bloody half timers - just as bad as the god damn dentist and doctors. More than likely won't be able to collect til next week. I'm angered, can you tell?

rant over, back to work everyone, nothing to see, nothing to see.

 

[kolza]

This brings me to a nasty thought, if UK is not in the EU - does this mean every single part we buy from say Italy, where its easiest to find the hard to find panda parts, thats over £15 we will have to pay £8 handling fee every time?

That will apply not only to car parts but all day to day products as well.
Hope this will not be the case, nothing as yet is firm, still long negotiations will take place to cover 'open market ' rules. Norway for example they are not in EU but are in EEA which cost their gov lots of money not giving them right to say any thing.


OK back to work...

 

[blu73]

yes lets not start that debate here lol.. i'm trying to avoid it as much as i can atm.

 

[blu73]

Well the marmite is here... I give you one sparkly red gear knob.

 

[blu73]

Well feeling a little exasperated right now... Char is all back together now but there is some issues.

But first I will just quickly run through what i have actually been upto. I took the head off, removed the inlet and fuel pump etc.
Stripped it right down, cleaned it and the all the component parts up, changed the valve seals, rebuilt the head using new cam seal and dizzy o-ring, replaced the thermostat and checked the valve clearances.

On the bottom end I have cleaned up the mating surface and pistons faces.
Replaced the waterpump, replaced the metal water rail that runs along the front of the block.

Refitted the head using a payen head gasket and new head bolts in the right order, finger tight, then 20Nm, then 30Nm, then 90° and 90° again. All bolts marked so I could be 100% sure i didn't miss one.

Cleaned out the rocker cover, refitted with new gasket, torqued to 8Nm with smear of oil resistant gasket in corners of cam caps (people usually over torque these and thats why they leak)

Stuck new timing belt and tensioner on - incidently when i have my engine at TDC i cannot see any markings on the flywheel, all my previous FIRE engined cars you cannot put the flywheel on the wrong way so this seems very odd to me and I'm guess means I cannot check the ignition timing - not actually tried as of yet I just marked where the dizzy was and put it back in the same place for now.

Then fit the replacement timing cover and refit the aux belt pulley.

Filled the cooling system with clean fresh water and rad flush and let it run for about 15 mins, wow the crap that came out you wouldn't believe. filled, ran, drained with just water several more times and finally filled with coolant.

Then i dropped the oil and renewed it and the filter, because why not, even if it is only few months old it can't ever hurt to have new oil.

Think that covers everything thats been changed. Oh and I fitted the sparkly red gear knob, it required the little pips on the top of the shaft to be ground off to get it to slide on but the dremel made light work of that.

So today I took it for a little spin and there was a noise - i new noise, kinda whurry noise. First thought was sounds like a tensioner bearing - I'll come back to that. Apart form that it seemed to be running pretty decent, slight hesitation pulling away though. Done several long downhill on overrun and not a whisp of smoke from the back so thats good.

So I drive back home and open the bonnet, thinking it doesn't sound quite right so pulled ht leads off one by one starting at cyl.1 - the one on 3 the wire came off but the connector stayed were it was, no noticeable change in engine tone. OK so i got a spare lying around, no biggy. Whacked that on, fire it up and yes it seems to idle a bit better - think before it was firing but bit dodgy connection so not all the time.

Right then, whats this noise i think, poke my head around while its idling and yep, defo coming from the belt end. Whipped off the new timing cover and its evident this doesn't fit as well as it could, bottom pulley has ground a mark into it. Wouldn't it be great if thats all the noise was i thought, fire it up and bugger its still there.

So I'm thinking this has to be either the belt tensioner or the waterpump really (both brand new). So trying to get my ear as close as i can without the belt ripping my hair and scalp off and sounds more like from the waterpump, turn it off. Giving it a good eyeball it looks ok, belts sat on it nice, i know it felt smooth to spin when it went on and at this point i decide lets fire it back up and watching it it looks like the actual pulley on the waterpump isn't spinning true, ever so slight wobble to it. FFS! So i think that needs swapping out again

So now, I've almost spat my dummy out and then i notice that there is a patch of oil above the waterpump, odd.... Thought it would be from rocker gasket despite being pretty confident i can seal them without leaks but nope dry as a bone the head is, so wipe it off, quick spray of brake clean, and sure enough I can soon see a weep of oil there again coming out, as far as i can tell, from between the block & HG. Now thats a weird one, I have changed countless FIRE HGs and never had one leak there before ever. I know i put the gasket the right way up but obviously starting to doubt myself now - multiple dummies have now been thrown, infact dummies have been mounted to rockets and fired into orbit. This head is gonna have to come off again

 

[blu73]

Well this makes me feel a little bit better about life

 

[kolza]

You should invest £3.5 in mechanics sthethoscope right now. Makes tracking the noises much easier.
Had dodgy brand new (not OE) water pump as well some time ago. ( yellow/green pattern on the box, can't recall the brand right now).
Try to realase some tension from the belt and check. Oil leak - warped head? Was it skimmed?

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

I'll join you on the dodgy brand new water pump ownership. The first one I put on monica had a dodgy pully, you could move it side to side by hand. Hope you get it sussed mate.

 

[blu73]

Yeah proper stethoscope is something I been meaning to buy for about a decade.

The waterpump is a febi one, so not cheap but not expensive either. I got a video earlier, will post link shortly. The pulley isn't loose and when not spinning it looks straight. Does make a funny noise so perhaps the bearing in it has some slop and the tension of the belt pulls it causing it to wobble.

I have calmed down some now, so expect another update soon.

 

[blu73]

New engine and gearbox mounts. Something I been meaning to change from day 1.
Could have just tigersealed the existing ones and they would have been fine but you could see the rubber is all cracked and brittle so better to just replace.