Carbon offsetting?

Currently reading:
Carbon offsetting?

StevenRB45

Upstanding Member for Newcastle
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
11,523
Points
2,484
Location
Newcastle
In all honesty always thought this was a bit of joke, buy a Range Rover and we'll plant a few trees to balance it out.

But I've been a shell customer for years due to being the only local place that did 98-99 octane and as a result a loyalty card holder.

Apparently as a result they will support schemes to plant trees to capture the equivalent of the CO2 emissions.

I'm on 95 these days anyway as much usage means I see no benefit from vpower now..but I don't mind paying less than a £1 a tank..so about 3 quid a month over Morrisons fuel to plant some trees.

Wondering what peoples opinions of these sorts of schemes are? Way I see it, unlike previous schemes where the inducement was to buy something new..I was always going to buy the fuel I'm just paying a small amount more so if it plants some trees well that's good.

But interested to see if anyone has more information or opinions?
 
I don't believe for a second you can offset an international manufacturing operation by planting some trees.

But more trees should be a good thing you would imagine compared to doing exactly the same activity and planting no trees.

You would think this sort of thing will become more common as alternative fuels become more common. Realistically there's no manufacturing base to replace all the conventional cars tomorrow. All the electric cars have long waiting lists even if they halved in price they are going to be trickling rather than flooding on to roads. That and if all new cars were suddenly electric only that will push battery prices back up, even before you get to questions of infrastructure.
 
Resident Shell employee here!

I've just had my first offset statement - apparently we've offset around half a tonne of carbon from my business trips over the last few weeks.

This is done via investment in protection and re-forestation projects in Peru, preservation and restoration of the jungle in Indonesia (including projects which will help prevent the extinction of the orang-utan) and some forestry projects in Scotland and the Lake District.

Largely, it means one tree for every 150 litres of fuel, although this is just a ball park figure as tropical trees grow quicker and offset carbon more quickly than Scottish trees.

Interestingly, we are paying for this in the UK, whilst some competitors are want to (optionally) charge consumers extra.

We're spending a lot of money on low emissions energy - be it battery manufacturing, wind and solar farms, CNG (compressed natural gas), LNG (Liquefied natural gas), or EV charging. We also have an interest (either fully owned or via joint venture) in around 50% of Germany's 100 H2 filling stations.
 
Carbon offsetting is a great idea but its also a great way for unscrupulous outfits to look green when they are really far from it. No disrespect on Shell I use their Optimax. I dont really see how offsetting can really replace the large volumes of CO2 we create from car usage.

I also use Tesco 99 which definitely runs better in the 100HP. The cost is less than 5% more, I gain more than 5% in mpg and the car drive better.

The oil and gas industry also need to reduce methane leaks to atmosphere. It has 85 times the warming effect of CO2 so big efforts in leak control have big benefits.

Shell really should be looking at investing in these guys -

https://www.moltexenergy.com/
Competitors? Not necessarily.

Nuclear power is zero CO2 but nukes are silly expensive. Not these designs.

Moltex have gone out of their way to design out everything possible which needs regulatory attention. That increases safety, and massively cuts build costs and regulatory costs. The latter are especially expensive.
When nukes are cheaper than coal, the filthy high CO2 black stuff will fall out of the energy market. That makes room for petroleum. BUT high temperature, low cost energy can make ammonia which can be used as a vehicle fuel. Nukes are zero CO2 and the molten salt versions are extremely low waste.

This explains how they do it.
https://www.moltexenergy.com/learnmore/An_Introduction_Moltex_Energy_Technology_Portfolio.pdf
 
Last edited:
I may have done a small amount of research last night and the consensus seems to be the majority of offsetting is just moving numbers around rather than funding new things.

But in the course of this I decided I'd actually quite like to know how much carbon it has produced in the 5 years I've had it. Off to an online calculator where you plug in miles covered, fuel type and economy figures.

Got my answer at approximately 10 metric tonnes which sounds a lot..but flying to New York from London is about 1.5 metric tons per passenger.

Also all the pro-electric literature seems to list the average car emissions at between 4 and 6 tonnes annually. The only one that quotes an MPG figure gives 22mpg as the average economy of petrol car. You can only assume these are figures rearched in the US.

Hopefully it won't be a clean diesel situation where all the figures say things should get better..but the reality doesn't match up as sums were based on incorrect information.
 
I may have done a small amount of research last night and the consensus seems to be the majority of offsetting is just moving numbers around rather than funding new things.

But in the course of this I decided I'd actually quite like to know how much carbon it has produced in the 5 years I've had it. Off to an online calculator where you plug in miles covered, fuel type and economy figures.

Got my answer at approximately 10 metric tonnes which sounds a lot..but flying to New York from London is about 1.5 metric tons per passenger.

Also all the pro-electric literature seems to list the average car emissions at between 4 and 6 tonnes annually. The only one that quotes an MPG figure gives 22mpg as the average economy of petrol car. You can only assume these are figures rearched in the US.

Hopefully it won't be a clean diesel situation where all the figures say things should get better..but the reality doesn't match up as sums were based on incorrect information.

10 tons of CO2 is a lot if you think of it in terms of volume, with one ton of co2 occupying 556.2m³ of space and the world produces 40 billion tons every year, that is a mind boggling amount of CO2 that’s being produced.
 
10 tons of CO2 is a lot if you think of it in terms of volume, with one ton of co2 occupying 556.2m³ of space and the world produces 40 billion tons every year, that is a mind boggling amount of CO2 that’s being produced.

I agree, though that's over 5 years so 2 tonnes a year. If for example me and the Mrs flew to New York we would be more than doubling our annual emissions for transport.

My issue is more with the figures being used to promote electric vehicles If you do 30k miles a year in a diesel at 60 mpg. Then you still produce less CO2 than some green car sites promote as the average emissions of a conventional vehicle. If you take a more average 10k miles at 40mpg petrol then they are overestimating Co2 emissions from conventional cars by about 50%.

I will be doing offset thing, just cos there's not really any reason not to, a small benefit is better than no benefit.

It's just that in the process of looking into that I wandered off campus and it does rather strike me that not flying around the world and reducing annual mileage would be as effective as building lots of new infrastructure and cars and scrapping lots of old ones. Especially when they seem to be overstating the emissions of the 'average' car by so much so are rather setting themselves up for a disappointing return.

Although there's not much money in telling people to use what they have more efficiently...
 
Last edited:
We should reduce CO2. However am shocked by the number of man made gases with thousand fold greater greenhouse effects, not least some air conditioning gases, refer to another live thread on the forum! An example is gas used in some electric switch and transformer gear in order to prevent arching, very common around wind farms for example, which would do more harm than any of our cars put together if allowed to release. Which must happen more often than some might admit. Much more research and legislation is needed in many places.
 
I make 1 x220 mile trip weekly in a loaded diesel @60 mpg equates to @10p per mile =£22 In derv

Either end is 10 mins walk from a train station.. but train is £56 return..

Doesnt seem any incentive..and I cannot take much with me on the train :(


Give us European rate train fares..and thats 12k miles my old mj isnt doing.

I'm in a similar boat.

Back in 90s when I was growing up I used to get the bus to town, it went past where I work now (literally the bus stop is outside), it took 30 mins on a bad day.

Now I'm an adult the former 3 local bus routes have been consolidated into one service....that goes every where...and is therefore only useful as a tour bus. My house to town is now 2.5 hours, also the route now no longer goes past work adding a further 30 mins walk.

To top it off it's 5.60 each way, the car costs 2 quid odd in petrol and takes 15 minutes or at worst 25 mins at rush hour.

If we still had a decent bus I'd take it, yes 30 mins is longer but I could read a book like I used to..go for drinks after work e.t.c. but no.

As result of this we have to have 2 cars...if I could use the bus for work we'd only need one.
 
I'm in a similar boat.

Back in 90s when I was growing up I used to get the bus to town, it went past where I work now (literally the bus stop is outside), it took 30 mins on a bad day.

Now I'm an adult the former 3 local bus routes have been consolidated into one service....that goes every where...and is therefore only useful as a tour bus. My house to town is now 2.5 hours, also the route now no longer goes past work adding a further 30 mins walk.

To top it off it's 5.60 each way, the car costs 2 quid odd in petrol and takes 15 minutes or at worst 25 mins at rush hour.

If we still had a decent bus I'd take it, yes 30 mins is longer but I could read a book like I used to..go for drinks after work e.t.c. but no.

As result of this we have to have 2 cars...if I could use the bus for work we'd only need one.
Ahmen to that. Found out that bus from Bury St Edmunds to Thetford really is a PIA. Left the car in Bury for a service, i enjoy the walk to the bus station, waiting ages for the bus... It got to outskirts of Thetford, not a big town, then took ages to weave round the housing estate before getting to the station. Once I realised how much it might continue I offered to get off at a critical point and the driver stopped me as not a designated stop. From both that point, and the original outskirts of Thetford, it would have been quicker for me to walk past the bus station to my house than sit on that bus. What's worse is not one of the passengers would have been infirm for their respective walks. Not an efficient service nor appealing.
 
We should reduce CO2. However am shocked by the number of man made gases with thousand fold greater greenhouse effects, not least some air conditioning gases, refer to another live thread on the forum! An example is gas used in some electric switch and transformer gear in order to prevent arching, very common around wind farms for example, which would do more harm than any of our cars put together if allowed to release. Which must happen more often than some might admit. Much more research and legislation is needed in many places.

High voltage power switch gear uses Sulphur Hexafluoride (SF6) gas to insulate the switch contacts and reduce arcing. The stuff is 23.500 times the global warming effect of CO2 and it hangs up there for at least 100 years. Nobody mentions its effects on the ozone layer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49567197

So (assuming the same density) a car generating 2 tons of CO2 per year has the same warming effect as just 85ml of that insulating gas. Obviously it's not allowed to leak, top ups are minimal and its always purged for safe disposal. We can see that happening on a wind turbine tower out in the North Sea. Oh yes.
 
Last edited:
High voltage power switch gear uses Sulphur Hexafluoride (SF6) gas to insulate the switch contacts and reduce arcing. The stuff is 23.500 times the global warming effect of CO2 and it hangs up there for at least 100 years. Nobody mentions its effects on the ozone layer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49567197

So (assuming the same density) a car generating 2 tons of CO2 per year has the same warming effect as just 85ml of that insulating gas. Obviously it's not allowed to leak, top ups are minimal and its always purged for safe disposal. We can see that happening on a wind turbine tower out in the North Sea. Oh yes.

How about a comparison to the older... now banned air con refrigerant gasses R...

1 LITRE lost for @ 10% of cars on the planet .. thats a lot of litres.
 
Well first statement has come through, they shall be offsetting 854kg of CO2 at a cost of £3.64.

Surprised they can stay in business with that level of generosity!:p The 854kg apparently includes distribution and extraction so it's not just tailpipe emissions.
 
Ahmen to that. Found out that bus from Bury St Edmunds to Thetford really is a PIA. Left the car in Bury for a service, i enjoy the walk to the bus station, waiting ages for the bus... It got to outskirts of Thetford, not a big town, then took ages to weave round the housing estate before getting to the station. Once I realised how much it might continue I offered to get off at a critical point and the driver stopped me as not a designated stop. From both that point, and the original outskirts of Thetford, it would have been quicker for me to walk past the bus station to my house than sit on that bus. What's worse is not one of the passengers would have been infirm for their respective walks. Not an efficient service nor appealing.
We are lucky enough to have a really excellent and affordable bus service in Edinburgh - free for me now with my OAP pass - which is always winning commendations and awards. Excellent as it may be though there is no way it can be compared to using a car.

Journeys definitely take longer and waiting for a bus is rarely longer than 10 to 15 mins on a main route. But you don't have to factor in looking for, and paying for, parking. For that reason I will usually take a bus if going into town. This is a radial route by which I mean it's from the outskirts (north of city) to the centre of town and reverse to come home. Try moving sideways, around the city, and it's a different ball game altogether. Often easier (sometimes the only option) to go in to the centre, change bus and come back out to your destination. Now that can really use up your day!

Then there's the "humanity factor". The car is my own space and I can choose to go where and when I want, largely without restriction, in pleasant conditions and with privacy. Public transport means hanging around, often in the rain just to watch the bus you want disappearing up the road. As I don't often travel at rush hour I nearly always get a seat but quite often find my fellow traveler may not be someone I really want to sit next to - bags/parcels partly in my lap, "excessively large" people forcing me to sit with one butt cheek hanging out into the aisle, smelly people - and there are more of them than you might think. I include people, both male and female, who have drenched themselves in scented preparations. People who cough and sneeze next to you or behind you, I've definitely had more colds since traveling regularly on public transport. Then there's the "old man's problem" of needing to wee more often than when young. In the car you can always make a diversion to a retail park etc if things get desperate but on the bus?

With our regular trips to north Devon to visit Mrs J's sister we've tried the train a few times but I won't even consider it now. The cost for the two of us is just ridiculous when compared to the car. On two of the trips the heating didn't really work and we both lost all feeling in our feet. On one trip there was a frightful fuss with people sitting in our booked seats which the guard could not resolve so we were seated in other seats but it meant moving twice on the journey as the seats were part journey booked. When we reached our stop (Tiverton parkway) we almost lost our bags because by then we'd been relocated half way down the train to where we originally got on! Then there's the toilet problem. I have a comfortable duration in the region of two hours if I "manage" my intake carefully, two and a half at a stretch. Seldom do they all work for the whole journey and it's often a bit of an anxious search to find the one that's working. Now I can live with that but when you get down into the midlands there are so many people standing in the aisles and corridors that you can't really move around the train at all. When it's like that people sit in the loos too. I also absolutely hate having someone's butt in my face because they are standing next to my seat in the aisle! It's just not good enough considering the amount of money being charged for the service.

Now, to reduce emissions, we're talking about forcing many many more people onto public transport? There's an awful lot to do before I'll be doing that.
 
Jock, I do enjoy your observations!
Flexible working is vital for work life balance these days, I'm lucky enough to have an office job to take advantage. Family life with all sorts of things to disrupt a normal routine can be easy to manage if you have a flexible commute and good work practices, working from home is an option for me. So a car is a must.....

However I miss the public bus I used to take into school many years ago (it was not a dedicated school bus which have issues of their own) There is a community aspect, you can read or relax, the routine of seeing familiar people doing the same is good, all good. It makes you plan ahead properly.

Given how many people pass between my 2 main towns every day you would think some kind of unified community transport could be achieved.....
Most busses around here are old and dirty not suitable for long runs nor weaving through side streets following the out of date template design. A faster lighter vehicle with more flexibility and frequency might help... Some sort of dynamic ticketing and route planning for commute customers?
This is an area where community and private industry could be much better integrated.
 
Having read your complimentary reply Andyd I've just reread what I wrote and it bothers me just slightly that it comes across as very anti public mass transport. So I thought I'd just set the record straight by saying I am not at all anti public mass transport just anti the personal impact it has on me.

In fact when, at 50 years old, with my newly acquired free bus pass in my pocket I changed my career direction entirely and went to work with my learning disabled gardeners, I found that if I walked for 10/15 minutes to a bus stop on the main route and then walked for about the same time at the other end, I could catch just one bus all the way up through the city centre and on out to the outskirts on the south side where we were based. I did this for nearly 16 years as I was asked to stay on after officially retiring so they could find a replacement. The only real downside was that journey time was at least doubled but with all my children having left home it all worked out really well - Gave Mrs J more time to play bridge! In fact, now I think about it, after a good days work cutting hedges, turning compost, digging manure into borders, etc, etc, dressed in my outdoor clothes, padded shirt, barbour jacket and muddy steel toecap boots, I was probably one of those people who I would rather not have now sitting next to me!

Journeys like this on local busses are certainly tolerable but long distance I just can't take it - especially when you look at the cost.
 
Sorry folks, talking absolute rubbish there! I acquired my free bus pass at 60 of course. Afraid I'm "away with the fairies" just now, running a temperature with a very bad cold/possibly "man flue". I only did the last 6 years on the free bus pass prior to that I alternated going on the bus with my treasured, but not awfully reliable, 1500 Allegro estate.
 
Back
Top