Car Room 101

[puntofan01]

where as this Sandero is so badly built it couldn't handle being crashed !!

View attachment 176311

The same could be said for this mk6 golf...

 

[AndyRKett]

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The same could be said for this mk6 golf...

The point I was making is it was a stupid comparison, I'd 100% predicted someone would post a picture of a vag group car and try and make the opposite argument.

The point being is you compare a broken car to a working car then the broken car will always come off worse.

Plus mine wouldn't do that as it doesn't have a roof to start with

 

[SB1500]

At the end of the day, it's out of the question that a 2010 car owner should suffer a £1000+ dealer only fix having driven the sh*t out of the car - avoiding the whole 'drive it to clear it out' bs the dealers give.

The Sandero doesn't have that problem. The handling is probably slightly better than my Panda from a test drive I did in one so it can't be 'that bad' you'd crash it.

Still, badly designed, malfunctioning DPFs and suite from the Victorian Industrial Age is unacceptable in my books. Especially when you could get three Sandero's or two Panda's for the cost!

All cars have their flaws, but VW do as much as anyone.

Sad to hear about the GPF's, hopefully now we're out of the EU we can escape those redundant Euro7 etc rules. I Googled GPF and it only seems to be VW fitting them from 2017 on? Perhaps to stop people saying 'I'll get a petrol next to avoid the DPF issues' - probably cheaper than designing a fix for the TDIs

 

[puntofan01]

The point I was making is it was a stupid comparison, I'd 100% predicted someone would post a picture of a vag group car and try and make the opposite argument.

The point being is you compare a broken car to a working car then the broken car will always come off worse.

Plus mine wouldn't do that as it doesn't have a roof to start with

Granted, SB1500s' comparison was a bit daft, given the age difference between the 2 cars, but to post the picture of that Sandero was plain stupid. You could type any car into Google, and find pictures of gruesomely mangled examples!

 

[AndyRKett]

At the end of the day, it's out of the question that a 2010 car owner should suffer a £1000+ dealer only fix having driven the sh*t out of the car - avoiding the whole 'drive it to clear it out' bs the dealers give.

How old is the Dacia ?? I don't think they started selling them over here till 2012/13 ? Also two different cars can be driven very differently and if both were not owned from brand new do you know exactly how they were treated. 2010 is getting pretty old now and DPFs are not a dealer only part, they are a consumable item and when you buy a new car you are warned about the process needed to look after them. There are plenty of garages that can do these now.

The main problem with DPFs are short distances on city roads and they need to be driven and warmed up properly. Today we swapped our 2012 70,000 mile mini 1.6 Diesel for a new mini and there have been zero problems with the DPF filter.

Why do you keep turning these threads into a "my car is as good as a Volkswagen' type rant every 5 minutes while stamping your feet. There is really no point and no one really cares if there was any validity in your claims then everyone would be buying fiats, as it stands fiat registered 60,000 cars in the U.K. In 2016 meanwhile VW sold 70,000 golfs and 55,000 polos

You can carry the argument on forever if you want but all your actually succeeding in doing is winding yourself up

 

[StevenRB45]

Going back to character...

Character does not equal flakiness...the Citroen is flaky as a modern car comes..it also has no character being a parts bin special with a 4 cylinder diesel. Yes you can personalize the bejesus out of it...but it's all stick on interest and having driven a ds3 a C3 and a C4 cactus what struck me most is how similar they all feel which given their different targets is disappointing.

Character to me would be things you'd miss if you no longer had the car that aren't in other cars. So in my Japanese bland mobile, they would be the blade runner interior, flick of the wrist gear change, high geared hydraulic steering and well set up sports suspension. These differentiate it from a Ford Focus despite also being a platform share (my dad has a focus 2 which I've driven for comparison). None of these things take away from the purpose of the car but day to day they make just using it more fun.

I like to think the designers enjoyed doing the work...rightly or wrongly and that they work to the best of their abilities. Can't imagine the bloke doing a polo enjoys what he does, his brief is "looks like the old one but different" "better than a Ibiza worse than an Audi A1" "use no new mechanical components unless we can use them on all the other cars in the range"

Could be worse I suppose could love to be a fly on the wall at Skoda, "so let me get this straight we have to use all the same components but in such a way that it's worse than all the other cars in the group to justify the price difference? You're asking us to deliberately bork the calibration on identical components to make it worse? Oh alright then."

Then you get the top of the group where Phaeton parts cost half as much as Bentley parts despite being the same. Same with Audi and Lamborghini..the social engineering at VW is world class.

To summarise I think character comes from talented people doing what they do best. This is why VW tends not to have it and other manufacturers can have it. You can't make a stand out product if all your cars are the damn same.

 

[The Panda Nut]

All Nissan Navaras and all similar pickups especially the ridiculous £50,000 VW. Please note Fiat Pandas are NOT somewhere you park on, drive at, or over!!

Most cars with more than 150bhp! Tax them off the road...

Great fun I am sure but no longer acceptable.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Re Dacia Sandero / VW Golf.
Did someone get fed up looking at this road tax underpayer?? and trash it or is it one of those don't worry about it sir, they all look like that, its just a model trait1

 

[StevenRB45]

On the flip side GPF (gasoline particular filters) are arriving this year as the DPF generally do a good job mean while petrol cars are now spitting more particular matter than modern diesels Nox readings are higher on diesels but Co2 is higher on petrols it's all very much swings and roundabouts.

Overall though you can't really compare a broken car to a working car and claim that's the general rule my 2.0tdi defiantly goes above 30mph where as this Sandero is so badly built it couldn't handle being crashed !!

View attachment 176311

Ppfs are necessary due to direct injection..which among its many other positive effects, inlet coking for example means that petrol can produce as much particulate matter as a diesel. Yay for progress! However at least due to the higher EGT of petrol engines they shouldn't (we shall see!) require artificial regeneration. Again YAY for progress..

Rather surprised you'd post that photo with no context ...any car that's had a crash at more than 40mph will look demolished regardless of the make they simply aren't built to survive it..not that I'd want to have a crash in a car the 3 ncap stars or at all.

 

[AndyRKett]

Ppfs are necessary due to direct injection..which among its many other positive effects, inlet coking for example means that petrol can produce as much particulate matter as a diesel. Yay for progress!



Rather surprised you'd post that photo with no context ..

Head over to the 500 section and you'll find dozens of threads where they slate diesels and praise how clean petrol engines are. Fact of the matter is if it burns fuel it's never going to be completely clean.

I've noticed many new petrol cars with black oily deposits around the exhaust tail pipes, while diesels are generally quite clean since the advent of DPFs

the context of the picture was explained as a comparison to previous post the previous posts pitched a 2010 seat with a failed DPF against an undisclosed aged Dacia. They didn't start selling Dacias till 2012-13 in the U.K. And there was no comparison of history or mileage. My example was to make the point that you can take any car and tailor your comparison to try and prove you own argument.

Back to GPFs i don't see that the higher exhaust temps of petrol cars will make a great deal of difference to those who do lots of short round town journeys, especially combined with stop start.

 

[StevenRB45]

Head over to the 500 section and you'll find dozens of threads where they slate diesels and praise how clean petrol engines are. Fact of the matter is if it burns fuel it's never going to be completely clean.

I've noticed many new petrol cars with black oily deposits around the exhaust tail pipes, while diesels are generally quite clean since the advent of DPFs

the context of the picture was explained as a comparison to previous post the previous posts pitched a 2010 seat with a failed DPF against an undisclosed aged Dacia. They didn't start selling Dacias till 2012-13 in the U.K. And there was no comparison of history or mileage. My example was to make the point that you can take any car and tailor your comparison to try and prove you own argument.

Back to GPFs i don't see that the higher exhaust temps of petrol cars will make a great deal of difference to those who do lots of short round town journeys, especially combined with stop start.

Well you have to remember it is a matter of public record all the emission controls on a 500x diesel shut off after a journey exceeds 22 minutes. I'd think diesels were dirty as well if that was standard of emissions control involved..interesting side note would be that eu emissions tests last 20 minutes, coincidence is a strange thing.

So you're telling me a broken car is worse than one that isn't? Madness

I hope to avoid the Di/GPF/PPF in the same way as I've avoided owning a car with a diesel engine...for many of the same reasons.

 

[SB1500]

Point understood about the Dacia, sure, it's half the age. So I can say, fair enough.. perhaps it might have DPF issues. But it has not yet.

Still rather disappointed that a 6 year old car could have such a high impact issue. VAG or not. If I heard of a 500/Panda with a similar level issue, then I'd sure as hell avoid them too!

As much as I head to the VW site often to check them out, I can't bring myself to like the UP. The Polo and above, well, to be honest I seem to only want a smallest-class car so wouldn't think about them in any case. I can't seem to like Korean cars as they have no sort of substance. Ford, well they're nice but the Ka has too much equipment - same with the Vauxhall Viva etc. Though that's 'good' I just want something simple. The Panda seems to be one of the only cars that's a little unique, economical, something I'm familiar with and cheap to buy. Also, one that's not too 'shiny' so that when it gets dents and scratches I won't lose sleep! So in other words, looks aren't important. The uglier, odder - the better to me! lol

I know you do know your stuff AndyRKett. What other cars should I be seriously looking at in your opinion? Cheap to buy. Cheap to run. Simple/Basic.

 

[puntofan01]

With regards to the DPF issue, tbh I'd imagine that would largely depend on the sort of use the car gets, likewise with EGR valves. For example: most of the journies my mate does are only around 8 miles, so realistically, the best car for his needs would be a good, economical petrol engined 1. However, he insists on having a diesel, so as a result, the EGR packed up on his old 07 plate Corsa 1.3 CDTI, and it went on the 2.4 JTDm Brera he has now. Also, on that Brera, the DPF is constantly having to clean itself due to the soot generated by all the relatively short journies.

With regards to not wanting too much kit on a car, I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle: the market for basic runarounds is relatively small, and as technology continues to evolve, even city cars will continue to be stuffed with ever increasing amounts of gadgetry.

 

[SB1500]

With regards to the DPF issue, tbh I'd imagine that would largely depend on the sort of use the car gets, likewise with EGR valves. For example: most of the journies my mate does are only around 8 miles, so realistically, the best car for his needs would be a good, economical petrol engined 1. However, he insists on having a diesel, so as a result, the EGR packed up on his old 07 plate Corsa 1.3 CDTI, and it went on the 2.4 JTDm Brera he has now. Also, on that Brera, the DPF is constantly having to clean itself due to the soot generated by all the relatively short journies.

With regards to not wanting too much kit on a car, I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle: the market for basic runarounds is relatively small, and as technology continues to evolve, even city cars will continue to be stuffed with ever increasing amounts of gadgetry.

I was seriously browsing the Renault website last night looking at the Twizy!!! Call me a bloody lunatic (and I wouldnt argue on that one) but undercutting the ridiculous DPF and GPF and rising cost of fuel actually, for a minute, made it seem like the answer!!! Just stick on a Goretex coat and voila. Lol

 

[StevenRB45]

Still rather disappointed that a 6 year old car could have such a high impact issue. VAG or not. If I heard of a 500/Panda with a similar level issue, then I'd sure as hell avoid them too!

Er what impact issue? It's clearly hit a tree at speed then had the roof cut off by emergency services. Without context it's meaningless but it's a modded golf R so the chances are it was travelling fairly quick to leave the road and hit the tree very hard.

I seem to remember some years ago on here someone left the road in at 70 on a slip road panda 100hp and it was literally destroyed all the wheels gone front and rear removed. They got out otherwise there wouldn't have been pictures but it looked worse than the golf does.

Again though they aren't meant to survive big impacts unscathed they are meant to fold at higher speeds to take the impact rather than your internal organs but at motorway speeds or hitting irregularly shaped immovable road side furniture all bets are off.

 

[puntofan01]

Nah, he's referring to a DPF issue on a Seat. When he says high impact, what he actually means is that the fault has rendered the car undrivable.

 

[StevenRB45]

Aw boo was hoping to win with this wall 0 Mazda 3 1

 

[SB1500]

Some supporting evidence for three prime Car Room 101 entries.. p.s. we should all have to make parody photos of each car to have them entered ;-)

ENGINEERING!!!

*forgot to attach**facepalm*

 

[SB1500]

Supporting files;

 

[puntofan01]

In all fairness, that's an insult to washing machines, as they have far more style and character than an up.