General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!

[mjsmke]

Hello everyone

I bought my '10 reg Fiat 500 1.2 Lounge three weeks ago, directly from Fiat. 50% of the time I start my car I have the S&S failure. I have studied this thread and thought about every possible reason for it failing due to my error, but:

* I never ride my clutch. It was the golden rule when I was learning.
* The engine is not cold. It's June (albeit in England!).
* I do not believe I am putting any unecessary strain on the battery.

Like some people here, I find that turning the engine off and on again tends to fix it. However, a mechanic once told me that turning an engine on is a huge strain on the battery in itself, and generally not good for a car.

It worries me that the first post in this thread was nearly two years ago and Fiat seem no closer to solving the problem, even in newer cars like mine (less than one year). Part of me wonders whether ignoring the problem will be less of a hassle than trying to fix it, as the dealer is over an hour away.

If I had read this thread when I was looking for a car I probably never would have bought it, not because it's particularly difficult to live with the problem - it's not, really - but because I worry about being able to sell it on.

Anyway, I will call dealer on Monday and see what they say.

Lauren

The engine needs to get warmer than that. On a hot day here in the uk it could be 30 C outside but try touching the engine after a drive. You'll find its a bit hotter.

I get 'start stop unavailable' when parking and pulling out of my drive. The car knows when your parking so start stop wont work.

It says this in the manual.

 

[fifi77]

My Stop Start seems to have given up the ghost all together now. I have not had the warning light or 'Stop Start Unavailable' message, but the system no longer kicks in. This has had a couple of times before, but it always corrected itself after a day or two. Most of the time, the system worked without a problem, but it's now been just over a week and it hasn't kicked in once.

 

[Madabout500]

My stop start has packed in alltogether 2011 twin air with 4000 miles. Dealer says it clutch pedal / arm problem. the arm that holds the return spring had broken and hence does not return fully giving the sensor the appearance of a depressed clutch. New arm is a different design to original which suggests that there is a problem with them. The garage has had 2 goes at fixing it so far but found the dsign had changed and the associated springs etc needed to be ordered in addition to the arm so fingers crossed it will get fixed finally next week

 

[cheryl0405]

hi all
i have bought a brand new fiat 500 in march and the stop start has been a nightmere and the engine management lights has come on now god knows how many times!!! i have taken it back to arnorld clarke a number of times now i have even rang fiat direct and have had a letter back basically saying nothing they can do at present and as the car still runs at a a standard they think is acceptable then its fine! but really i have spent 14,000 on a car that doesnt fully work and have been missed sold a product as the stop start doesnt work as it says it should do surly something has to be done!!!!!!:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

 

[mjsmke]

hi all
i have bought a brand new fiat 500 in march and the stop start has been a nightmere and the engine management lights has come on now god knows how many times!!! i have taken it back to arnorld clarke a number of times now i have even rang fiat direct and have had a letter back basically saying nothing they can do at present and as the car still runs at a a standard they think is acceptable then its fine! but really i have spent 14,000 on a car that doesnt fully work and have been missed sold a product as the stop start doesnt work as it says it should do surly something has to be done!!!!!!:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Did you hold the car on the clutch at all? I did once for too long and the lights come on. after about 5 miles the car reset itself.

 

[bgunn]

Holding the car on the clutch is a good way of frying the clutch and killing the input shaft bearing on the gearbox due to excess heat. It's a driving test failure for a reason, the brakes are for holding cars still, clutches are for engaging drive when you're ready to move, or change gear.

Thus, if the start/stop malfunctions in this case, it's only because you're not driving the car properly.

 

[jguiver]

I have had the 'start and stop unavailable' problem intermittently for some time and a few days ago it packed up altogether, with the warning lights staying permanently on.

Out of habit, I always start a car in neutral with the clutch pedal depressed. Yesterday I started the car without depressing the clutch and guess what??? - start and stop is now working correctly again.

Has anyone else come across this?

 

[frupi]

My wife and I have only had our 500 for 6 weeks, the wife is the main driver, and as far as I am aware, it has never once given us a problem or cause for concern and we haven't had any failure lights pop up on the dash.

Concerning dipping the clutch when starting the engine, this should an automatic action every time the driver gets into his/her vehicle. I took my driving test 25 years ago and my driving instructor back then made me do that along with keeping the handbrake button pressed in when applying the handbrake.

 

[jguiver]

Exactly. However, I read somewhere on that internet thingy that FIAT recommend starting in neutral with the clutch up, so I must change the habit of a lifetime.

 

[frupi]

Mmm, and Fiat are experts in their field I suppose and are absolutely the font of all knowledge about their own make of vehicles! Judging by the content of many of the posts on here, I believe they have some work to do!

I for one won't be changing the habit of a driving lifetime. Dipping the clutch when starting the engine allows it to turn more freely and in most of my experience start up appears better for it. My old 15 year Primera which now has over 200,000 miles on the clock, can't have suffered too badly during my 10 years of ownership. It is still on the original engine and gearbox and I always dipped the clutch on start up on that.

 

[306maxi]

Mmm, and Fiat are experts in their field I suppose and are absolutely the font of all knowledge about their own make of vehicles! Judging by the content of many of the posts on here, I believe they have some work to do!

I for one won't be changing the habit of a driving lifetime. Dipping the clutch when starting the engine allows it to turn more freely and in most of my experience start up appears better for it. My old 15 year Primera which now has over 200,000 miles on the clock, can't have suffered too badly during my 10 years of ownership. It is still on the original engine and gearbox and I always dipped the clutch on start up on that.

It is good practice.

One suggestion I would make to jguiver, when you start the car to you turn the key part way till the instruments light up, then wait for the lights to go out and then crank the engine? It is possible that the car needs to have the clutch pedal up when it firsts turns on so it can calibrate itself so it knows that the clutch pedal is up.

My advice, turn the key till the dash lights up, wait till the lights go out, clutch down and then crank her over

 

[frupi]

Sounds like a good, well thought out compromise to me. What's more, it couldn't possibly do any harm.

 

[jguiver]

Thanks for that - I'll give it a go

 

[grimwau]

Exactly. However, I read somewhere on that internet thingy that FIAT recommend starting in neutral with the clutch up, so I must change the habit of a lifetime.

Maybe that is since the introduction of Start/Stop because the manual for my first 500 and my A500 both say to depress the clutch prior to starting the engine.

 

[TRS]

Must say I never used to depress the clutch before starting until I got my last car, which was a Toyota and they will only start if you depress the clutch!

Regards start & stop, I only picked up my 500 last Friday but it has been a bit erratic. I know all the variables as to why it won't kick in, but today it would kick in at one junction and not the next. Car was fully warmed and there was nothing different being used between junctions. Just appears completely random! Also i've always thought that with turbos you should leave the engine ticking over for a few seconds before turning off, but surely the start & stop goes against this - or is it a myth?

 

[306maxi]

Must say I never used to depress the clutch before starting until I got my last car, which was a Toyota and they will only start if you depress the clutch!

Regards start & stop, I only picked up my 500 last Friday but it has been a bit erratic. I know all the variables as to why it won't kick in, but today it would kick in at one junction and not the next. Car was fully warmed and there was nothing different being used between junctions. Just appears completely random! Also i've always thought that with turbos you should leave the engine ticking over for a few seconds before turning off, but surely the start & stop goes against this - or is it a myth?

There will be a reason why it's not stopping. It won't be random.

The turbo thing is only really when you've really been working the engine and building up a lot of heat in the turbo. If you're cruising along a motorway at 95 and then pull straight off into a services and park it up then you might not be doing your engine any favours.

Our Subaru has done over 210k miles with its original turbo and it's still going strong.

 

[TRS]

Have to say my start & stop does seem to be random!

Taking account of all the times it won't activate as per the manual, it still seems to be very hit & miss. Quite a few times with the engine fully warm and nothing on but the radio it often fails to activate. Then get to the next junction and it does! I'd say it works less than 50% of the times I would expect it to, annoyingly it often doesn't work when I know i'm in for a long stop.

I got to a level crossing today and expected it not to work, but thankfully it did. However, it then started completely randomly (no foot on clutch etc!). Fortunately, the gates were about to go up again - maybe it's even more hi tech than i thought

 

[FloJo]

My s&s restarts itself regularly after a 5-15 seconds, I've been wondering whether it's the weather (being cold outside) or something - for a few days during the "heatwave" at the end of september it was working as expected. When fully warmed up and having driven approx 50 miles from cold I'd expect the s&s to work when I pull up at a junction/lights but no, 5-15 seconds and the engine restarts itself. Foot well away from the clutch and with handbrake on! I'm still trying to work out what is similar each time to cause it to do this...

 

[306maxi]

Have to say my start & stop does seem to be random!

Taking account of all the times it won't activate as per the manual, it still seems to be very hit & miss. Quite a few times with the engine fully warm and nothing on but the radio it often fails to activate. Then get to the next junction and it does! I'd say it works less than 50% of the times I would expect it to, annoyingly it often doesn't work when I know i'm in for a long stop.

I got to a level crossing today and expected it not to work, but thankfully it did. However, it then started completely randomly (no foot on clutch etc!). Fortunately, the gates were about to go up again - maybe it's even more hi tech than i thought

As I said above, read just a little part of this thread and you'll find it's not random at all.

 

[RobinPJ]

I had a very new 500 with S&S (a 1.2 manual) on Friday while our 1.2 Dualogic, which does not have S&S, was having the peeling paint on its parking sensors repainted.

I have never driven a car with S&S before, but found the system completely intuitive to use and 100% reliable.

In fact, I did my damnedest to make it malfunction, but couldn't get it to go wrong no matter what I tried.

Not sure what difference it made to my consumption mind you.