General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!

[Janep1]

Mine's a dualogic and I've never had a problem with it failing.

The only comment I have is that as soon as it senses you have stopped, it immediately cuts the engine, not realising that you want to move off straight away - like in traffic or pulling up to a roundabout and just pause for a second before pulling away.

Of course if they gave the 500 eyes, it would see that I wasn't really stopping and merely pausing!

Apart from that, and getting used to starting the engine up again with the gear stick when it stops on a hill (taking your foot off the brake to activate the engine with the accelerator means you roll backwards) it's been absolutely great.

So at least one happy dualogic driver!

 

[keeforelli]

my garage checked it out today and said it was working perfectly, they say that 90% of problems with the start stop are user error (hey don't shoot the messenger!:shrug They also said it was probably because I had the AC on, even though I swore blind it didn't have AC! Oh well, I will learn how to use it eventually I guess, or give up!

On the plus side, the garage balanced the wheels for me which should have been done at the factory but apparently hadn't. That would explain the violent shaking at 60mph.

so your S/S works?...do you have an idea of what you were doing incorrectly?...have you personally seen it activate now, based on your own driving?

 

[tf12]

I'm having S&S problems, manifesting in one of three ways:

Message 'start and stop unavailable' on the display;
S&S and Warning Triangle yellow icons lit;
Just doesn't work with no message / lights.

The first two will happen usually while driving along, ie not while slowing / stopping. The third could just be engine not warm enough / not enough charge in the batt, but is occurring more and more frequently.

It's booked in for the dealer to have a look next week...

 

[Puo Bear]

so your S/S works?...do you have an idea of what you were doing incorrectly?...have you personally seen it activate now, based on your own driving?

it allegedly works. yesterday i was sat at a roundabout when it kicked in and the light came on the dash, unfortunately i got over excited and stalled it! But yes, it works, alas though my brain does not

As I live in the country I generally am lucky enough not to get myself into traffic jams (unless I want to go over to Bristol which is one enormous gridlock most of the time) so I don't think it's going to be too much of an issue to me.

 

[Ulpian]

I confess to not having read all these posts, but since S&S is now standard on all Fiats can someone tell me what happens when, say, you have been on a long hard drive, and the engine is running very hot, and you suddenly stop at lights or a jam or for fuel, or something. I would always idle the engine for a few minutes to allow the turbo to cool and not carbonise the bearings. Does S&S take this into consideration, or just kill the engine anyway? I'd hate this if it were to happen

Somebody must know...thanks.

 

[keeforelli]

I confess to not having read all these posts, but since S&S is now standard on all Fiats can someone tell me what happens when, say, you have been on a long hard drive, and the engine is running very hot, and you suddenly stop at lights or a jam or for fuel, or something. I would always idle the engine for a few minutes to allow the turbo to cool and not carbonise the bearings. Does S&S take this into consideration, or just kill the engine anyway? I'd hate this if it were to happen

Somebody must know...thanks.

when its up to temperature and operative, it will stop the engine the moment you are at standstill, out of gear, and release the clutch- however hard you have been driving....

the only turbo with s/s is the new diesel 95- perhaps this has been modified to stop the harmful effects of not letting things cool down on stopping...

 

[306maxi]

I very much doubt this is going to be an issue with anything other than perhaps an Abarth. I thought about getting a turbo timer for my wifes car but a friend told me not to bother unless you're absolutely ragging the crap out of it immediately before you stop. I really don't think it's an issue at all for turdo diseasels and low pressure turbo petrol engines.

 

[Ulpian]

Well I'd not want my hot turbo to stop without idling after a run. I always let it idle for a few seconds, however short the journey, and longer if I've driven hard on a long run.

I would hope that there is some sort of time/temperature sensor in the software of the turbo motors.

 

[D4nny8oy]

It really is simple- if you keep the clutch pressed and don't knock it out of gear- it won't 'stop'.

Saying that, if you've been ragging it and find yourself heading towards a traffic jam, you can just reach across and disable it temporarily using the button until you're happy it's cooled down enough to reactivate S/S.

From what I've read, there's no built-in parameters for automatically disabling S/S to create a 'turbo timer' effect on a hot turbo'd engine, only if a DPF regen is being performed on the Multijet models at the time of a S/S event.

 

[306maxi]

It really is simple- if you keep the clutch pressed and don't knock it out of gear- it won't 'stop'.

Saying that, if you've been ragging it and find yourself heading towards a traffic jam, you can just reach across and disable it temporarily using the button until you're happy it's cooled down enough to reactivate S/S.

From what I've read, there's no built-in parameters for automatically disabling S/S to create a 'turbo timer' effect on a hot turbo'd engine, only if a DPF regen is being performed on the Multijet models at the time of a S/S event.

In your opinion is S+S on a turbo engined car a recipe for problems?

 

[Ulpian]

It seems a bit clumsy having to remember to reach across and disable something that might otherwise cook your turbo though, doesn't it. And you can't depress the clutch on a Dualogic, it does that automatically, and then stops maybe, and cooks your turbo?

And what about holding the car still with the clutch depressed and still in gear, which is something I don't do as it isn't best practice.

I don't mean to be difficult here, I just wonder what safety parameters are built into the software; there are so many re battery charge, A/C and electric load etc....

...perhaps S&S should be disabled out of town as a matter of routine?

 

[D4nny8oy]

In your opinion is S+S on a turbo engined car a recipe for problems?

In the hands of someone who doesn't understand turbo's and causes of their failure, I'd say yes, though only slightly more likely than what issues they'd normally encounter.

In my experience, people who drive petrol turbo's hard tend to know they should allow the turbo and oil time to cool after a hard run.

You could say that Fiat should program-in an in-built turbo timer, but then again, keeping the engine idling would go against the 'eco' idea and confuse those who don't understand why it isn't start/stopping now. After all, I don't know of any mainstream turbo'd cars that have a turbo timer system from factory.

 

[306maxi]

It seems a bit clumsy having to remember to reach across and disable something that might otherwise cook your turbo

I don't quite get why you have it in your mind that stopping whilst driving with a turbo car is going to cook your turbo. With modern lubricants and manufacturing tolerances turbo's are fairly robust things, if they weren't there'd be loads of chavs cooking the turbos on their Impreza's and this simply doesn't happen.

 

[Ulpian]

I still read lots of reports in newspapers etc. of people complaining that their turbos have seized after quite low mileages. The advice is always to idle the hot engine before switching off. Obviously some engines will be more prone than others, but it is good advice and a feature I would have expected would have been incorporated into the software. S&S is best suited to town driving anyway, but after a long run I wouldn't want to come to a halt and have my super-hot turbo motor shut off in order to save me five pence in fuel, and then cost me £1000 for a new turbo. Not economical

 

[306maxi]

In the hands of someone who doesn't understand turbo's and causes of their failure, I'd say yes, though only slightly more likely than what issues they'd normally encounter.

In my experience, people who drive petrol turbo's hard tend to know they should allow the turbo and oil time to cool after a hard run.

You could say that Fiat should program-in an in-built turbo timer, but then again, keeping the engine idling would go against the 'eco' idea and confuse those who don't understand why it isn't start/stopping now. After all, I don't know of any mainstream turbo'd cars that have a turbo timer system from factory.

I think the fact that turbo failures aren't a common thing says a lot about how robust they are. Tbh with the wifes Subaru unless I've really been ragging it which is almost never, I seldom give it much if any time to cool down because unless you're really punting it along the turbo isn't spinning up that fast and it doesn't give the car any problems. I'd wager that the turbo in the wifes car is prehistoric in terms of quality and tolerances than anything Fiat are putting in their cars today.

 

[306maxi]

I still read lots of reports in newspapers etc. of people complaining that their turbos have seized after quite low mileages.

I'd take those reports with a pinch of salt. You might have Fred Chav who rags the crap out of his car from cold and who just doesn't treat their car sympathetically at all who then rights into honestmonumentallyboringguy's column and complains that it went boom. I certainly think turbo engines need to be treated better than n/a engines but they're not that fragile.

 

[RobinPJ]

I very much doubt this is going to be an issue with anything other than perhaps an Abarth. I thought about getting a turbo timer for my wifes car but a friend told me not to bother unless you're absolutely ragging the crap out of it immediately before you stop. I really don't think it's an issue at all for turdo diseasels and low pressure turbo petrol engines.

Excellent

 

[D4nny8oy]

I still read lots of reports in newspapers etc. of people complaining that their turbos have seized after quite low mileages.

I was thinking about this today, and can honestly say (in over 10 years) that we've only ever had one turbo failure due to bearing damage- it was a taxi with no service history which had oil like tar and had also chewed the lobes off the cam.

In the 3-4 years the T-jet has been around, we've never had a turbo failure, at all.

 

[306maxi]

I was thinking about this today, and can honestly say (in over 10 years) that we've only ever had one turbo failure due to bearing damage- it was a taxi with no service history which had oil like tar and had also chewed the lobes off the cam.

In the 3-4 years the T-jet has been around, we've never had a turbo failure, at all.

That's pretty much as I expected. I think turbo failures were a big problem in a 80's and the quality and tolerance that the turbo's were built to back then wasn't as good as it is now. I've never known anyone to have a faulty turbo, well other than the time a lazy garage said that the wifes car was having trouble starting and it was down a faulty turbo (wtf?), they replaced a faulty sensor but forgot to clear the ECU codes and the car was still in limp mode :bang:

If turbo's were really as susceptable to damage as Ulpian thinks they are then when you buy a turbocharged car they'd be making you sign a document saying that you have been told how the turbo works and how you should drive it if you want to avoid damaging it etc etc.

The fact that as Dannyboy says, no turbo cars seem to have turbo timers from the factory says a lot. Think about how often you would have the opportunity to REALLY rag a turbo car at 100% throttle and then within 30 seconds be at rest and turning the ignition off? When you're on the motorway the turbo is barely spooled up compared to when you're at full throttle so this doesn't really count.

 

[Alfastealth]

Engine warning light on. Below is a reply from the Fiat Forum
I intend to reject the car has anyone had success with this?


12 WEEKS ON STILL NOT RESOLVED and now just to add salt to the wound I was told today there is no fault, its the way I drive. So there you have it, no problem then, just drive with the warning light on then. I think not. I am currently awaiting a reply from the garage management and Fiat uk. I feel I have been very patient up till now and cant belive after numerous visits and messing about fitting new parts contacting Fiat tech support the light is still on so therefore its our fault. I am now contacting the motoring press. Hope my finance company will now sort this out.