Technical Brake master cylinder JTD 115

[realstokebloke]

Hi, my '54 JTD 115's breaks suddenly went very spongey at the weekend.

Took it to my garage & he had a"good look" and concluded it was the master cylinder.

Then told me it was about £130 + the VAT + fitting (approx). Ouch.

1. Is it obviously the master - any way to tell?
2. I think that was for a Bosch one (it is a Bosch system on there I think?) but will this "Cifam" (big, Italian manuf apparently) one do just as well does anyone know please?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Mas...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e82423c6f

Any advice appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[martyc5674]

I replaced mine... I remember finding it hard to locate one but once I had the part number I went on ebay Italy(lots of fiats there!!)... And I got one delivered for €50.
It was very easy to fit.
Search my posts and I'm sure I linked the part... Mine is an 03 115 jtd.
Marty.

 

[realstokebloke]

I replaced mine... I remember finding it hard to locate one but once I had the part number I went on ebay Italy(lots of fiats there!!)... And I got one delivered for €50.
It was very easy to fit.
Search my posts and I'm sure I linked the part... Mine is an 03 115 jtd.
Marty.

Cheers Marty,

Did yours have the same 'symptoms' (spongy brakes / lots of travel / pumps hard / brown trousers at junctions) ?

& I assume that cured it?

OK, so Einstein time here: where do I get the part number for one?

Thanks.

 

[realstokebloke]

Yeas, the ebay one (above) will be nearer to that £-wise.

In it's 'spec' for the cars it fits however (copied below) it says "EPS" for (what I think) is my car ('04 onwards). Not got a baldie what the EPS bit is, anyone know if that's right? Thanks.



FIAT Multipla (186) 1.9 JTD 115 85 1910 07-2002
Diesel
Additional Informations: w ABS, Year 02-, w ESP, Brake system Bosch, Chassis/vehicle/engine number 2178714-


FIAT Multipla (186) 1.9 MJT 88 1910 01-2004
Diesel
Additional Informations: w ABS, Year 04-, w ESP, Brake system Bosch, Chassis/vehicle/engine number 2178714-

Also, is it not odd that both versions (I assume the former is the bug nose while the latter is the facelift - which is mine).

 

[slobo]

Not got a baldie what the EPS bit is, anyone know if that's right? Thanks.
.

ESP is 'elecronic stability program' traction control that works with the ABS.

I don't know what EPS is either.

 

[martyc5674]

OK i found my post...turns out it was germany not italy i got the mastercylinder for.

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/310864-brake-master-cylinder-seals.html

And heres the part that i got for mine.

http://www.lpr.it/e-idraulicascheda.asp?LPR=1934


So what i would do if i were you is trawl ebay for the OEM part numbers listed above...

77663498 9948551 986481005 etc etc
Marty

 

[realstokebloke]

ESP is 'elecronic stability program' traction control that works with the ABS.

I don't know what EPS is either.

Slobo, my bad, so my apologies.

It is ESP.

 

[realstokebloke]

OK i found my post...turns out it was germany not italy i got the mastercylinder for.

https://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/310864-brake-master-cylinder-seals.html

And heres the part that i got for mine.

http://www.lpr.it/e-idraulicascheda.asp?LPR=1934


So what i would do if i were you is trawl ebay for the OEM part numbers listed above...

77663498 9948551 986481005 etc etc
Marty

Hi again Marty, and thanks.

Your second link to LPR took me straight through to a 1934 part number for the cylinder.

I assume that was the one you used. Unable to order one off there, I rang them to do that but upon double checking it was the right one with them via the reg., they actually then said it was a 6771. They redirected me to a local distributor who quoted £44 something. Fine ( a lot better than the £140+VAT I was quoted) But...I thought I better double check again and they said it was the wrong one !

It turns out the 1934 is non ESP, the 6771 is with ESP. (LPR's website listing is actually wrong, so be careful & double check if anyone is ordering but they promised to change it.)

So all I need to do now is confirm which mine is first...a call to the dealer for the RPO codes to confirm in the morning...

 

[martyc5674]

Yes the 1934 fitted in my non ESP JTD 115 (2003 ELX)

If you find which one does fit then the OEM numbers are also listed on their page.
Trawl ebay using these numbers...
Although you seem to be having better luck than me with your local motor factors...they sent me to main stealer...

Marty.

 

[widemouthfrog]

Have you tried looking at the eper on the forum, using your VIN number? The eper covers up to 2005, so your car should just sneak in. That will give you a definite part number for your car.

 

[martyc5674]

IIRC the problem with this part on eper is that it shows the servo and master brake cylinder as one part...

 

[widemouthfrog]

Aaah. In that case, I'll get me coat.

Just tried to have a look on eper myself, but it's down again

 

[realstokebloke]

Actually, does anyone know a way to tell if the car has ESP or not without having to go through, the very, very confusing / frustrating 'systems' Fiat have:

dealer 1 - couldn't tell me which my car has as per original spec. nor could they / would they tell me the OEM part no., but their part - which wasn't sepecified as either ESP or not, it's just in "a Fiat box" !) was, & I kid you not - £553.36 !!!.

Dealer 2 - same except theirs was slightly cheaper (£167 + VAT) but they also said the OEM part was replaced and so any new / subsequent ones might have been remodelled, so they couldn't guarantee it would fit to the "brake booster" (whatever that is?) just behind it, so just add ano £225 +VAT for that as well !!!

So I tried Fiat themselves. Sadly they have become so corporate as to make you want to slit your wrists after the third misplaced "just put you through to the right department".

I was registered as a case number and so, if I am lucky, someone who knows naff all about it anyway will phone me back "hopefully tomorrow" and give me ano load of spurious answers.

In the meantime, ano factor I tried told me the with ESP brake pipe holes are 12mm, whereas the without ESP brake pipe holes are 10mm.

Not that easy to tell (for me anyway).

Any other mmore obvious give aways please?

 

[realstokebloke]

Yes the 1934 fitted in my non ESP JTD 115 (2003 ELX)

If you find which one does fit then the OEM numbers are also listed on their page.
Trawl ebay using these numbers...
Although you seem to be having better luck than me with your local motor factors...they sent me to main stealer...

Marty.

Hi again Marty,

Yes, if you know that you are non ESP, it is the 1934. Trouble is I still don't know ( see last post).

So, trawling ebay is still a question of 'with which OEM numbers anyway?' really.

So either Fiat WILL ring me back ( yer, right) or someone can tell me an easier way to find out.

 

[martyc5674]

I can take a photo of mine if you like...maybe the 1934 looks a little different to the other one you quoted???

i "think"...and to be honest i dont really know...that the ESP is only an option on multiplas with rear disk brakes.
Does your have disks on the back??...maybe someone else could back this up because im not sure how i "know" this!!

Marty.

 

[realstokebloke]

I can take a photo of mine if you like...maybe the 1934 looks a little different to the other one you quoted???

i "think"...and to be honest i dont really know...that the ESP is only an option on multiplas with rear disk brakes.
Does your have disks on the back??...maybe someone else could back this up because im not sure how i "know" this!!

Marty.

No, mine has drums to the rear. That would make sense though I guess?

I guess I do know what the 1934 looks like from the LPR site photo, thanks Marty.

And while mine looks like the other one (6771 was it?) not like the 1934, this business of them (Fiat) swapping the part completely due to the lead content somewhere in the original ones causing it to fail, makes me wonder if I have a later version?

They look the same ad far as I can see on the Cifam site (ano Italian manuf):

http://www.cifam.it/en/list-code.ph...settore=pompafreno&name=Brake Master Cylinder

And yes, the 1934 & the 6771 from LPR look different, from Cifam, they look the same ( ! ) but I will persevere with Fiat now & get all the bumf out of them once and for all via the VIN and take it from there.

Let you know, cheers.

 

[realstokebloke]

i "think"...and to be honest i dont really know...that the ESP is only an option on multiplas with rear disk brakes.
Does your have disks on the back??...maybe someone else could back this up because im not sure how i "know" this!!

Marty.

Can anyone confirm this please?

i.e. That the ESP models are only the ones with rear discs.

i.e. You guessed it, absolute silence from Fiat's "customer care" dept.