Tuning best and easiest engine swap for cinq with turbo

[rallycinq]

Dampers have different valving for bump and for rebound.

I don't know what dampers you have, but the with a single adjustment its going to be one or the other, not both.

Again the difficulty is knowing what that plus 30% is based on.

220lb on a Mark 2 is just short of forest spec, IIRC.

On the Mantas and Asconas, we used 400lb in the forests and 700lb on tarmac, but that was on a wishbone suspension not struts so there is a multiplier effect.

Cheers

SPD

 

[fingers99]

Something is wrong, I think.

What is the ET of the wheels? Any spacers?

I used to run spax shocks and springs -- around 60mm -- with 195/45/14s on 6J Compomotives -- no scrubbage. They were way too hard for me (but Jason bought them and fitted them to the 1242 tub and likes them). The Sei set is said to be much more compliant than the Cinq set.

A really, really good set of shocks will have height adjustment (coil overs) plus rebound and bump adjustment.

Never underestimate the importance of the seat. A half spin in a HF Fulvia (generally a way better behaved car than a Cinq tub) once flipped me out of the standard seat onto the handbrake, regardless of seatbelts. Only luck, long legs and the car saved me from hitting a Welsh tree...........

 

[mustard]

i have even put the rear shoxs to max setting so there is no give and it still rolls and it comes from the front as with either left or right hand corner and the tyres are rubbing heavily on the inner plastic arches to the point where they have worn thru the plastic and also have rubbed on the inner wing at the back of the front wheel and im only running seicento abarth alloys with 175/50hr14.im seriously thinking of binning these pi shoxs and getting some billys...views please?
the seats are going to be last thing on my agenda as want to get the handling sorted before i start putting the turbo power thru.

As fingers stated what spacers have you got as i can't understand how you are rubbing the arches on abarth 14 inch rims and 175/50 tyres

 

[andys cinq]

Dampers have different valving for bump and for rebound.

I don't know what dampers you have, but the with a single adjustment its going to be one or the other, not both.

Again the difficulty is knowing what that plus 30% is based on.

220lb on a Mark 2 is just short of forest spec, IIRC.

On the Mantas and Asconas, we used 400lb in the forests and 700lb on tarmac, but that was on a wishbone suspension not struts so there is a multiplier effect.

Cheers

SPD

the front shox and springs are P.I. and they based the 30% harder than standard sporting springs and if they are i think i need 100% stiffer.it also feels as though it bottoms out when dropping off speed humps at 20mph....i thought it was hitting the bump stops so removed them but no different.think i need one of you cinq experts have a look at it....i feel as though im banging my head off a wall:bang: it might be ok but im not 100% happy with it.
me thinks its time for full set of coil overs.
the wheels are standard abarth seicento and there are spacers behind them of about 2 maybe 3 mm max and were on there when i first bought the car so left them on there.when i bought it there were standard cinq sporting rims on...

 

[fingers99]

If they're Abarths, then those spacers are not big enough (at the front). The Abarths came with 10mm spacers. You may still be able to get them from FIAT.

A ball park figure: 35mm ET Compos need at least 8mm spacers up front (10 is better) and 3mm at the back (unless you run UT disk set up at the back, when you can run without).

Running shocks without bump stops is a recommended way of destroying them (and possibly putting the car on its roof). By all means cut the stops down, but do it by checking that they actually come into play before the shock bottoms out (spring out, jack under the wheel).

 

[andys cinq]

If they're Abarths, then those spacers are not big enough (at the front). The Abarths came with 10mm spacers. You may still be able to get them from FIAT.

A ball park figure: 35mm ET Compos need at least 8mm spacers up front (10 is better) and 3mm at the back (unless you run UT disk set up at the back, when you can run without).

Running shocks without bump stops is a recommended way of destroying them (and possibly putting the car on its roof). By all means cut the stops down, but do it by checking that they actually come into play before the shock bottoms out (spring out, jack under the wheel).

please see my pics of my car so you can confirm they are abarth wheels.surely that will cause the fronts to rub on the wing arch as they are quite close as it is???? they are 38et if i remember correctly.how much should i cut the bump stops down by?only took them off 3 days ago as a trial over the weekend.
as for the back its bog standard and has no spacers on at all and no rubbing at all....
i really appreciate everybodys help if it was a ford id have no problems!!!!

 

[fingers99]

Corrected ET should be around 27. Works like this:

The bigger ET, the closer the wheels sit to the centreline of the car (unless the ET is negative, but here it isn't) so, 38 mm - 10 = 28 ET, which is in the right ballpark and should be fine. A lot of people run 185/50/14s on those rims. No spacers at the back should be fine, and having a wider front track will improve turn in no end.

Can't advise on how much to chop the stops: something like 1cm before they bottom out should be fine, but you really need to get out with the jack and the spring compressor.

 

[andys cinq]

Corrected ET should be around 27. Works like this:

The bigger ET, the closer the wheels sit to the centreline of the car (unless the ET is negative, but here it isn't) so, 38 mm - 10 = 28 ET, which is in the right ballpark and should be fine. A lot of people run 185/50/14s on those rims. No spacers at the back should be fine, and having a wider front track will improve turn in no end.

Can't advise on how much to chop the stops: something like 1cm before they bottom out should be fine, but you really need to get out with the jack and the spring compressor.

im with you now and the jack will be coming out ans i just undo the rear shock and take spring out by hand.if i get time in between working on others cars ill take fronts off a take pics of rubbing to inner wing and the state of the plastic inner arches.will any 10mm spacers do for the front?
rallycinq said about the camber and been reading up on it a bit.how do i go about it exactly???? on about ovaling the bottom shock hole? or is there a proper way to do it?
cheers

 

[craigb244]

rallycinq said about the camber and been reading up on it a bit.how do i go about it exactly???? on about ovaling the bottom shock hole? or is there a proper way to do it?
cheers

yep. drill out the bottom hole. I drilled mine out 2mm larger. you then refit the bolt (you might need to buy a longer bolt) with a washer on each side. push the top of the wheel in as you tighten them up and then put a blob of weld on the washer to keep it in place (dont NEED to tho)

then you will need to take the car in for tracking as it will throw it way out.

 

[fingers99]

Or buy adjustable camber bolts or adjustable top mounts. 1mm static negative is a good starting point.

 

[whitz]

you could grab this if he still has it

https://www.fiatforum.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=16322

 

[fingers99]

you could grab this if he still has it

https://www.fiatforum.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=16322

And go looking for convenient ditches to run into............ Massive fab job to get that in a Cinq.

For the spacers, hubcentrics or you may find the FIAT ones (Sei Abarth) are cheaper.

 

[andys cinq]

yep. drill out the bottom hole. I drilled mine out 2mm larger. you then refit the bolt (you might need to buy a longer bolt) with a washer on each side. push the top of the wheel in as you tighten them up and then put a blob of weld on the washer to keep it in place (dont NEED to tho)

then you will need to take the car in for tracking as it will throw it way out.

cheers i will have a play tomorrow and as for tracking i probably track 10 cars everyday.....i will let you all know the result...:devil:

 

[andys cinq]

And go looking for convenient ditches to run into............ Massive fab job to get that in a Cinq.

For the spacers, hubcentrics or you may find the FIAT ones (Sei Abarth) are cheaper.

i would fancy doing that one either and dont fancy visiting any ditches....well not if i can help it lol.
do all the seicento abarths have these spacers on?if so i can contact someone breaking one on ebay

 

[fingers99]

They all should. The MPI Abarths were factory built, came with those wheels as stock.

 

[andys cinq]

They all should. The MPI Abarths were factory built, came with those wheels as stock.

going ebay hunting now.thanks

 

[rallycinq]

Fabricated top mounts will allow not only neg camber, you can dial in a bit of extra castor too.

Cheers

SPD

 

[andys cinq]

Fabricated top mounts will allow not only neg camber, you can dial in a bit of extra castor too.

Cheers

SPD

where can i get them from rallycinq?

 

[rallycinq]

Demon tweeks, rally design, or your local enineering shop.

Top hat down, is what you need.

Cheers

SPD

 

[allanhelen]

i would fancy doing that one either and dont fancy visiting any ditches....well not if i can help it lol.
do all the seicento abarths have these spacers on?if so i can contact someone breaking one on ebay

Yes but IIRC they are spacer studs rather than your untraditional type of spacer