Technical Battery parasitic drain 2011 Panda any suggestions

[The Panda Nut]

SO far this week I have had to buy two batteries. I replaced the one in our 2011 car with the bigger one from the 2014 car. That promptly died after about a week. After a battle with websites to get my GEM discount from halfords their top battery installed for another £75. I decided to run a welter of tests on the system just in case its not just a case of two batteries failing a week apart. Result is that there seems to be a discharge going on accoerding to my Gunsons test tune. SOmewhere around 0.1A to 0.5A. This is a fail and falls into excessive discharge apparently. I checked the oterh car andfound initially it seemed the same but after a few more minutes its drain fell right back into the green c. 0.01A.

Investigating, I can only find 1 fault and that the boot lock has failed. Muck has again caused the handle / micro switch to stick. A load of very fine dirt in and around hte two pivots meant when you pulled the handle it did not return. I don't know but suppose this means ongoing power to the solenoid rather than just a shot when the handle is pulled. My son is a physicist and say its unlikely to cause any significant drain at the solenoid is not constantly operating. Anyway its free and working again ready to refiit in the morning. It took a hell of a lot of fiddling to get it working again but the switch now clicks on and off again so should be fine. While all the lock and handles were off I retested and the drain is still there so its not the boot causing any issue.

I ran MES and the charging seems 100% 14.2V with full load on. The only fault code showing was to do with electronic key not recognised. I think this was a week or two back and resulted in the immobiliser light being on when the old battery went down. Fault is not present now.

I am hoping someone else may have a suggestion of something they have identified as a drain to aid me in not having to grovel on the floor pulling out each fuse in turn. The cars running well and is not showing any symptoms other than failing the residual drain test. I dont want to knacker another battery as this one is new.

I have located an old charger to try and charge the old battery as the smart charger wont even recognise it as a 12V battery in spite of it showing 12,6V. If itd actually dead it may be that it is just a battery issue. If it rechagred though the car will be the culprit.

Ideas or comments would be appreciated.

 

[varesecrazy]

Blue and Me

Is a common item for this.. you can just unplug it

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks for the suggestion.
2011 car doesnt have B&M... thankfully.
I did unplug the ecu plugs and the drain is still there. Oddly the meter needle is oscillating quite a lot too.

 

[varesecrazy]

Nothing obvious then

There is a good GUIDE for the 188 punto chasing such an issue

Similar level of kit to a Panda 169

 

[varesecrazy]

Let us know how you get on..

Basic Battery / Alternator / Parasitic Drain Testing Guide

Hi, Some of the most common problems on the Punto mk2/2b such as Electronic Power Steering failure and poor starting etc can often stem from a poor battery or charging system. When these threads appear, most people are advised to check the...

www.fiatforum.com

Alan the 188 mod doesnt post on here now.. but left some very iseful info

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Is it by any chance the boot light, given that is controlled by the boot catch? (Although this - and just about everything else - should turn off after 15-20 minutes when the body computer shuts everything down.)

or, is this a car you've put a towbar on? Is the towing wiring bypass relay doing something odd?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks HH. Daffo is our 169 Mylife and does not have luxuries like a bootlight. Thats for posh people! I did offer to fit one but the offer was scorned!

Update.
I have sorted the boot handle microswitch it was sticking due to accumulation of fine dust and possibly some corrosion on its pivot pins, Its 3 years since I was last there. the boot handle works again which is a bonus. Repaired the scratching arounf the blach rear hosing while it was off. I dont now think it was involved in the battery discharge issue.

Borrowed an old charger and connected it to the old battery. It charged for a couple of hours and shows 14V but is as dead as a door-nail and my smart charger will not accept its there and switches immediately to motorbike setting if connected. It must just have failed internally. Its still full of fluid but will be off to the recycling dump tomorrow.

Ran another discharge test on the new battery and it still looks odd. I think the fluctuation of the needle was the clock flashing. But the rate of discharge is quite high. 0.25 to 0.5A. I have done this discharge test with the ECU leads disconnected and that makes no difference. I also repeated with all the relays out one at a time - still no difference. I connected MES and ran every function test on every component and there are no faults and all tests passed. Ran all the actuators for everything as well.

Current (bun) situation is its now all back together and parked up for the next couple of days. I shall consider retesting with eavch fuse out if there are any issues. I am also going to heck the calibration of my Gunsons Testtune against my multi meter.

Reading Alans post I may need to run my test for much longer to allow things to settle before retesting. Something I had not thought of. I think its actually this elay thats nnede before testing thats the issue and that we are good to go. Instant starting has been restored so Im hopeful. It was notably slower to fire before the new battery was fitted. The new battery is bigger and has a 5 year warranty so it will now have to take its chances! I will pull fuses if we experience problems. It seems we just had twom old batteries fail in the same week. Truss's law!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Just to note I also checked the earth lead. Its 11 years old. It still had its manufactureing label attached (April 2011) Pretty nearly perfect but now cleaned and reinstalled. I soak it in spray oil and spray copper grease regularly and it seems to have kept it in near perfect order. Just a little green mist on the surface which was removed with a soft wire brush. It looks nearly new again. Thankfully the clutch slave went back without issue. I was worried when I saw the piston rod trying to leave the building, but its retaining clip did its job and no harm was done.

 

[tomdee]

I had that issue with a battery draining (new one) in a couple of days without use and the issue was with the Bluandme. Since this did not work I ended up disconnecting the cable permanently. In your case it could be some communication between ECUs, the panda is full of them.

 

[varesecrazy]

Glad you are making some progress


As a precaution.. check alternator output

Too high will kill batteries.. but with no warning light

 

[Goudrons]

It's tricky to check for battery drains on a modern car, as you know they electrically stay awake for a while and it's easy to reawake, particularly if you're repeatedly making and breaking a connection with the battery and electrical system with a meter or tester as you go along.

One thing worth a mention with tracing drains, there is a normal small drain on the battery anyway (like the clock) which is generally around 0.05amp and you might pull a fuse and stop this drain then think you're on the right track, or the normal small drain and the parasitic drain are on the same circuit or you have more than one.

So it's best to start with a plan and a list of what fuse does what and work through it methodically.

A few years ago my Alfa Spider gave me such a headache with a drain I stood there with a can of fuel and a box of matches, threatening the thing!
I ended up pulling everything, fuse,s relays and connections, then replaced them one at a time until I found two faults, one with the boot release and one with the connection to the circuit board in the dash.

It add insult to injury, while fixing those I triggered a SRS fault caused by dodgy wiring to one of the seats.

 

[Panda IIs]

So it's best to start with a plan and a list of what fuse does what and work through it methodically.

A few years ago my Alfa Spider gave me such a headache with a drain I stood there with a can of fuel and a box of matches, threatening the thing!
I ended up pulling everything, fuse,s relays and connections, then replaced them one at a time until I found two faults, one with the boot release and one with the connection to the circuit board in the dash.

Apollo 13 comes to mind... (Finding the electrical solution to allow re-entry)

 

[Goudrons]

I remember it more like the aftermath of someones hamfisted attempt to fit and then remove a cheap car alarm or immoboliser.

The SRS was a well known (but not to me at the time) issue with a block connector to the seat.
Turns out they made them from those old rotting, wafer thin carrier bags certain supermarkets used to use. Touch them and they turn to dust!

 

[koalar]

I checked an 05 dynamic and 06 active with a amp meter


They were different but not after the body computer had gone to sleep


I opened the bonnet. Then locked the car up

Disconnected the negative and placed a amp meter in between

200ma and drops to 10ma after a few seconds

It’s important if you are measuring milliamps that the interior light doesn’t come on while doing the test.

 

[RalphM]

If the diodes in the alternator are getting a bit leaky you can get a discharge through that.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks for all the help. Ive tested output for several days and its consistently spot on. I now assume the BC is not going to sleep as quick as I would like, but its setteld down and starts as it should in freezing conditions , so seems normal. The newer 1.2 drops back to 0.01A after 5 to 10 seconds. I have given up waiting for the 169.... It had been a tardy starter for some time often requiring two shots. This morning it was still 13v and it burst into life instantly at around -3C. Clearly we just had two batteries fail at the same time.

 

[koalar]

What value are you getting ?

0.01A is correct for a active and dynamic

After a few seconds doors locked

 

[The Panda Nut]

This was and may be still 0.5A for over ten seconds. The other car also does this but drops back to 0.01 after a few seconds. I ran MES and did all the tests and checks possible and decided its just a slow car to drop the ECU off. Charging is certainly good and giving c. 14.1V at idle.Its been fine for several frosy nights and the battery does not seem to drop overnight so I am leaving it to it until is warm enough to re run some tests. Each night its at least been teh same and the battery sits at 12.9-13V so appears normal. If Id never looked, Id not have seen the higher dscharge rate and would be none the wiser. I only decided to look as Daffo ate both its battery and Rubys battery in 3 days. As Rubys battery seems to have sufferd the same internal short or cell failure Im just a bit suspicious, but it is a failed battery and was 8.5 years old. I shall retest and leave the test connected for 5 minutes to see how long it takes for the draw to drop back, As I saw the newer car do the same 0.5A and then drop back to 0.01A Im reasonably happy its just variation between components rather than a fault. Its easy to forget the mileometer etc run on for a while with dash lights. I identified the pulsing was just the clock flashing after disconnection -after some fo the help herein. It will take a few weeks for Daffo to be allowed off the naughty bench!! Thanks again for your most helpful input.

 

[koalar]

What version of car is it

An active is in the 200ma range before sleep (06)

And the dynamic in the 300ma range before sleep (05)

I can’t remember the exact figures

500ma is a fair bit above this

I have a 2010 1,2 active but have never measured this