General 500R Restoration

[ricardoreis]

No worries about the stamps, I'll try to reuse what's on the car, just needs a bit of straightening up..
No, I haven't, but it's the next tool on the list.. I have to start practicing to be ready for the panels replacement.. This is going to be a slow phase, as I've to brush to the metal on the most detailed/critical parts to uncover rust and so on, so I can do the panels list to buy.. Going to be quite an extensive one, I believe..

 

[ricardoreis]

hi everyone!
i'm back! - i want to apologize for all the time away and not bringing news, but the spring/summer projects got on my way. now that the winter is back, i'll be posting more of my progress.
will start now by figuring out what happened to the photos i had posted before, and will try to update the previous posts where they're broken.

by my last post on here it seems like i didn't come with the update on:
1. got 20 panels/parts for the bodywork (might still need more)
2. got a mig welder (2nd hand, nothing impressive, but does the job)
3. got two old school co2 bottles (repurposed from old fire extinguishers)
4. did some training on welding (on my own, sure) - the results weren't anything amazing, but kept getting better along the summer. (no, didn't start yet doing it on the car)

see you around..

EDIT:
Some photos. Unfortunately it seems impossible to edit posts that were replied to.

 

[ricardoreis]

hello!
i've been checking a couple of restoration projects here, to push my confidence a bit further to get back to my restoration, and i had to notice that, even though my car isn't in the worst shape, there' two or three spots that really worry me. two of them are the rear supports for the jack, which are really in bad shape (considering the overall condition of the car, it seems odd to me - but should be ok to fix as the photos i've seen around here give great hints on how to fix those), and the third spot is what i'm bringing in some pics of:

on the rear, there's that grid for the air intake to the motor. inside that, i can see two little hoses coming from the frame of the windshield (just like there are in the front two same hoses). i'm able to figure out where are they coming from, but i'm thinking on a previous restoration of this car, they might have put these hoses quite short, not taking the water to the right place. which, i believe, is responsible for the rusty spot on the panel behind the back seat (right in the center of it). please look at these photos and let me know what do you guys think, and what would you do to fix and avoid it happening again.

 

[ricardoreis]

no rush, but any thoughts would be appreciated..
btw, tomorrow i start cutting panels..

 

[1500500]

no rush, but any thoughts would be appreciated..
btw, tomorrow i start cutting panels..

The little hoses were the same length on my car. I don't think Fiat expected a lot of water to pass through and that the heat in the area would evaporate most of it

I have not had rusty jack mounts so hopefully someone else can comment on that

 

[fiat500]

There are exit slots if I remember correctly, which take the water down the back of the engine. If you look closely it's easy to see what the designers intended.
Don't forget that rainwater will get blown in there through the grille anyway, unless you're name is Sean Franko500, so I would also live with it.
But unblock the slots.

 

[ricardoreis]

thank you both for the answers.
i haven't thought of the evaporation, as never drove mine, but it does make sense..
i'll look for those slots, as i haven't seen them yet.

if you're talking about Sean-the-man-who-won't-drive-in-the-rain, that could be me, yes.. but i'm toooooo far from being as good as he is.

any sugestions on how to fix that panel behind the back seat? i'm thinking of just cutting a square around the 'hole' but that's not a straight panel, plus, have no idea where those slots are, and don't want to block any with this move..

 

[Franko500]

Hi,
you will need to remove the rear screen & rubber, clean any sealant from around the window aperture and you will see 2 small holes which are actually part of the plastic tube or a small plastic insert. The idea was any water that got in between the rubber and the screen aperture would find its way out of these tubes and evaporate. It didn't work. Half the time they were sealed up by sealant. Chances are your vehicle has been left outside in the rain for long periods and water just went through the rear grille and eventually caused corrosion to the rear seat panel where the water will collect. Possibly supported by leaves etc which will hold the water there?
See, don't go out in the rain!
I agree you may end up cutting a hole and then patch it up. As long as you don't go too low you can keep it to the area that is in the box section and therefore will not be visible to anyone.


Regards to the jacking points, looking at your sills, when you remove them if you cur the lower section off the rear 1/4 panels you will expose the inner strengthener. chances are that is corroded as well. change them while you can. I have a drawing for the l shape panel if you want to knock some up. When you remove these you can change the rear jacking points.
Within no time at all your car will be pulled apart as much as mine was. And when finished you will be scared of the rain!

 

[fiat500]

You won't block the drainage slots as they are up at the top. I think that there is one at each end in this photo. You might have to zoom in but just to the left of the control box and at the far right just in the shadow. There may be more but it's dark outside so I can't check.
_JAN0563 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
By the way..Sean's teasing, or he better had be; that car of his is too good only to get out and about only on dry days. Take away the days he's working or away on holiday or restoring his "D" or down at the pub and you're left with 3 days a year by my reckoning.

 

[Franko500]

Ah but you are forgetting I am down south where we have longer spring, summer and autumns to you Scottish folk who spend most of your time in front of the fire drinking whiskey!

Just a shame our scenery isn't anywhere as nice as yours and our roads are as empty

 

[ricardoreis]

oh Sean, i share your feelings about the rain.. mine will drive in the summer only, for sure..

i have read here somewhere, that these hoses had that purpose (not sure if in your Franko restoration page), but was just wondering why so short, leading to metal panels..
the inner part seems pretty clean, though, but i can imagine that being outside water going through the grille was a constant.. will try to have a better look for those slots and clean them as much as i can..
cutting it without going low enough to show on the motor bay, that's gonna be the challange - i think the rust is already to that low level.. but i'll be leaving this part to the end.

about the jacking points, i still havent cut the sills out, but i've planned to go through the left side this weekend. the bad side is the right one, in which i can see the rust is poking a whole through - i'll try to take pics during the weekend. i'll let you know through the process if i'll need those drawings..

 

[ricardoreis]

You won't block the drainage slots as they are up at the top. I think that there is one at each end in this photo. You might have to zoom in but just to the left of the control box and at the far right just in the shadow. There may be more but it's dark outside so I can't check.

which photo?

 

[fiat500]

which photo?

Sorry it's there now..it's not easy to see so the image is massive.

 

[fiat500]

Ah but you are forgetting I am down south where we have longer spring, summer and autumns to you Scottish folk who spend most of your time in front of the fire drinking whiskey!

Just a shame our scenery isn't anywhere as nice as yours and our roads are as empty

Stop that crying, you get the poor fella wet.
PS. The Irish Fiat 500 owners drink whiskey, we drink whisky.....well....cider really

 

[ricardoreis]

Stop that crying, you get the poor fella wet.

oh man..



found them!
notice the light gray line? that's where the water was going through..

and see how it looks like on that rusty spot? it's already visible from the motor bay:

 

[ricardoreis]

so, i started on thursday cutting through the rust.. that's going, as expected, pretty slow, as i have to think a thousand times before doing the next cut, which is proven to fail at times, like those two cuts that 'poked' the tunel where the door is mounted on - accidents happen, i guess, but no worries though, i'll be welding that as first, when i get to actually weld something.
and yeah, to get to that step - welding - i'm kinda stuck on a loop of overthinking, as i can't find a way of fitting the new panels in - you'll see from the photos. any ideas are appreciated (for that front fender, specially - the sill isn't welded yet, because i have to fix the rear jack support and so on).

now, the photos of thursday:

and today:

 

[ricardoreis]

the work of today was basically to think about what to do next.. it's really not that simple for me to decide on this, because the more i look at it, and poke around bits of rust, i just keep finding things that i would hope not to need any attention.. for instance, the support for the left front wheel seems like it's rotten behind that reinforced metal plate that it has around it. no pics on it as i decided to focus on the left sill - inner and outter.
the outter was already out yesterday, so, that's done, but now looking at the inner, there's a lot of work around it to take it out.

the middle section should be easy - the bottom will be to replace, so, don't have to be super careful while cutting the spots where they're connected. took a pic of something you might find amusing (from a previous restoration, i guess):

where's the support?

as for the front side of the sill, cutting it out without damaging that little triangle that is between the sill and the tunnel where the door goes on, might be a bit of a challenge. i've seen a few of you doing it after welding the sill in place. but not being so handy with working metal, i think i'll try to save it while cutting:

then the rear side of the sill, which i know has a lot going on behind this plate. i'll try to buy some proper drill bits to remove spotwelds, because i have just normal drill bits and that just takes way too much effort to go through the weld. i'm crossing my fingers on this one, because i'm afraid of what might be behind it..

 

[Franko500]

You don't need to drill the spot welds.
You could use the grinder to remove the metal on the top piece of metal enough to weaken the weld or get down to the piece behind it. Then you can lever the front piece off and clean up the remaining welds.
Sometimes this is a better option as you could end up drilling all the way through both pieces!

 

[fiat500]

i'm crossing my fingers on this one, because i'm afraid of what might be behind it..

STOP right there Ricardo. There's no need to remove that jacking reinforcement. It looks excellent. If it's that good from this side the chances are that it's OK on the other side. You can see that from lying under the car.
My car was corroded at the bottom of that corrugated plate but I just replaced a bit ans left the rest intact. Don't make work for yourself which might even weaken what looks like a pretty good car.
I did this when I wasn't as experienced in welding and luckily had never seen how thorough some people are.I didn't even continuously weld it but it's really strong and looks almost invisible from under the car.
DSC_8008 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

 

[ricardoreis]

You don't need to drill the spot welds.
You could use the grinder to remove the metal on the top piece of metal enough to weaken the weld or get down to the piece behind it. Then you can lever the front piece off and clean up the remaining welds.
Sometimes this is a better option as you could end up drilling all the way through both pieces!

yeah, i've done that in most of the front inner fender, but to the last (and more complicated spots) i used the drill (easy to drill really slow).. of course the first one poked through the second layer, but the next 5 went really well.. didn't even finish the first layer, just did enough to have them really weak..