Technical 16v woes

[The Black Box]

Ok I'm trying to get it running right ands its not happening. Engine is a 1.4 16v from a grande punto I'm using a mk1 punto loom made to fit with a mk1 punto ecu ( both 1.2 16v). It's starting fine but it just not at idle at all its revving very highly on startup. Throttle cable isn't too tight. I disconnected the coolant temp sensor which made it run better as before it was popping from tb and overfuelling as I pulled a plug and it was wet. I disconnected the tps as I did have this tb apart but doesn't make a difference at all. Leads are in the right order lt leads in the right order.

I don't have a lamba sensor or a temp sender connected at present but this shouldn't make any difference.

Could I have mixed up a wire somewhere? Or something else. This is really eluding me so any help greatly appreciated

Cheers

Rob

 

[fingers99]

Assuming you're using a different TB, I'd guess the high idle speed is an airleak of some description.

For the rest, I'd put the sensors in and get the codes read. Wiring issue is a possibility, but a code read should point you in something like the right direction.

 

[The Black Box]

Yep I'm using a mk1 punto 1.2 16v tb that I took apart and smoothed the inside I'm still using the 1.4 16v inlet mani and then made a plate to adapt to the different hole spacing I put some instant gasket between tb and plate an there is an o ring on the inlet mani. I don't have any code reading ability here would It be worth me swapping inlet to a mk1 punto as well which would also remove the possibility of my aftermarket fpr being at fault and sort air leaks?

 

[The Black Box]

A bit more infor starts up an revs to 4000 then drops and settles at 2500!

 

[woj]

An ability to read codes and have ECU diagnostics is a must in a situation like this. Not so long ago Andy had also problems getting his 1.4 to run, took me over a month of posts to convince him to finally bring to code reader from work, once he did it took him one day to sort out the problem which was two electrical plugs swapped with each other (that was a stepper motor and MAP/IAT IIRC).

But yours sounds like a considerable leak to me. Servo connection, all vac. pipes, etc. all checked?

 

[The Black Box]

Thanks for that gone through and tightened everything up checked for air leaks I did have one in the top where a scre would have once sat I plugged that up and no difference. I've put in the lamba sensor with no difference. So I think your right ill get some diagnostics sorted would fiatecuscan do this looking at the guides the program in there can only do 8v spi then its a case of ordering the cables. The management light is on so its not liking something

 

[fingers99]

ECU scan would do fine, but I think you need the full version (check!). Any old code reader will give you a good indication -- maybe you can borrow or hire one?

 

[The Black Box]

It looks like its timed for a certain ammount ive got 2 other fiats here plus with any others I may get so I might as well get it all and then I've got it to play with and fix any other future problems just working through what cables it requires I've got an old laptop lying around to use

 

[woj]

If it as an IAW 18FD we are talking about then IAW ECU Scan 2 would do best. I think cabling for IES is somewhat cheaper...

 

[ycming]

This is all from memory, as you are using the the 1.4 inlet with the 1.2 16v loom and ecu.

The map sensor is different with the 1.2 16v. I think Dan had same problems and in his thread there is something about re-wiring it!

Is there a reason why you opted for the 1.4 16v inlet?

Ming

 

[fingers99]

Good call -- it's certainly a different MAP sensor.

Not sure if the wiring (or the values) are different, but well worth a look.

 

[The Black Box]

I'm am using the mk1 punto map sensor no reason I had one before a mk1 punto inlet so just used what I had. I'm pretty sure your correct there is a monumental air leak I can hear an air noise so I'm going to remove current inlet and replace with the mk1 inlet making sure everything has a proper seal I got the idle down a bit lower by blocking up more holes so I'm hopeful that it'll work

 

[rallycinq]

it will be running that fast to stop itself from burning out running too lean. Air leaks as you have identified..

Cheers

D

 

[fingers99]

Just out of interest (I've a 1.4 inlet mani with no MAP and a couple of Mk1 1.2/MPI Sei style MAPs), how the hell did you get it to fit?

But no1 issue is an air leak: not sure that's the only issue, though.

 

[The Black Box]

Are talking about getting the mani to fit or the map sensor. The mani is a very tight fit I ended up taking some of the lugs and mountings off the heater box my battery is behind the passenger seat. The map sensor I followed the guide sanded down a part of it and then ended taking off a lug it pushes down very tight but I'm still not 100% convinced by it map is a mk1 1.2 16v punto one. A temp sender wouldn't affect anything just the gauge? I still need to work out as I don't have a part in the head for this only a very tiny space in the thermostat I may yet run a mk1 punto head and extension will remove the vvt stuff.

Could this also cause a problem I don't wholly understand it well enough. I removed the plate in the inlet side. I then put a plain ally plate over where the variator would be I know j33evo found one route had better acceleration on the rolling road? From my understanding the plate in the inlet moves depending on certain rpms, throttle position etc?

 

[fingers99]

Temp sender on the 1.2 16v does water temperature for ECU as well, IIRC, much like the MPI 8v cars. Pretty sure you need connectivity between that and the air temp sensor on the MAP.

For the MAP I think I'll find a Stilo one at the scrappy! (Bloody breakers nicked this one!)

It's not, if I understand it right, a variator in the sense of the Alfa ones. I think one of the holes needs to be blocked off -- don't know which.

Try PMing Arc or J333EVO?

But air leaks are the priority.

 

[The Black Box]

Ah that might be another issue to tackle then re temp senso just got to work out where to put one and then wire it in. I thought the stilo one wouldn't work as I've got a mk2 punto one that was the wrong code never tried it though. Will strip down tomorrow and report back

 

[Ralf S.]

My Alfa 145 gave these exact same symptoms when the Idle Control Valve failed. That's part of the throttle body on my beast.

Forget about looking for air-leaks and concentrate on matching the throttle position sensor to the ECU. One is not recognising the readings from the other.


Ralf S.

 

[The Black Box]

That was my initial thought. So I swapped it To a spare one with no difference also cleaned out the idle sensor with no difference. I'm going to be doing some swapping about in the next week or so which should solve the issue hopefully and sort others