Tuning 1368cc 16v - Classic Panda 100HP

[lewey]

We are doing a similar type project in a Seicento Abarth see here for our progress https://www.fiatforum.com/lets-talk-fiat/91558-seicento-1-4-16v-project.html

Aaron.

Oh I know. I've been watching for anything useful to me!

I have the old engine aout and the new engine gearbox and driveshafts in place under the car. Have problems and will post soon but watching Grand Prix now.

 

[lewey]

You are better going to a 1.2 16V inlet manifold from early models recognisable by being half alloy half plastic which means you can port match the alloy section to the head and has benefit of cable operated throttle body, this inlet manifold is also smaller than the 1.4 so eases the fitting difficulty in fowling the bulkhead.

I have thought about this and have the components in the garage as it happens, but am keen to try the system as it was meant to run. I'm trying to keep things down to a mega budget so I have the time to get it done (self-employed). As far as I am aware, if there is a problem with the ABS or speed sensing- that system including traction control is just disabled. I hope it will run well in this condition. If not, I will consider moving all the ABS equipment and speed sensors, or your route. Simply can't afford mapping costs.

Anyway. I have the new engine in position, but any mounts I have for the gearbox (rear and side) aren't anywhere near. I blindly assumed I could fit with Panda mounts- WRONG! The mounts I have with the CVT box are different anyway, but I have normal ones in the garage.

Any ideas? I know Oldschool will know as he says he has done it, but he seems to be busy at the moment- if not always!

 

[lewey]

I gave the whole under bonnet area a good scrub before yanking the 16v underneath. Quite a lot of paint came off the bulkhead shelf! Oh well.

Getting a Selecta may have not been the best idea as I will need a whole gearstick arangement with cables and the clutch and brake pedals with main bracket. No way I can use the Punto stick. :bang: If anyone can help in this area, please PM me.

Pleased with progress though, just need to work out how to mount the gearbox end of things and most of the pieces of the jigsaw will be in front of me.

 

[panda-sport]

Yep, the paint flaked off the top of my bulkhead too, There's a thin layer of sound deading that the paint doesn't stick to well.

Have you fitted the panda engine mount as the punto one is slightly longer?

I'm sorry, all I can suggest is what you have done and put the engine and box in place and see what lines up. Some fabrication may be required , when speaking to Oldschool a year or so ago about this I think he said you needed parts of the punto and panda gearbox mounts, I should of paid more attention . At least your posts spured me on to finaly finish mine.. cheers Damon

 

[lewey]

Have you fitted the panda engine mount as the punto one is slightly longer?

Not sure what you mean as the Punto mount was so different. Having said that the donor Punto is so new that none of the mounts are remotely like working or helping. Huge and expensive looking parts they are. Most of the bits on it are way off for the Panda actually, whereas the mk1 stuff seems closer on most parts, but that is fair enough.

I think I have broken the crank sensor when lowering the car over the engine. Balls.

 

[panda-sport]

Not sure what you mean as the Punto mount was so different. Having said that the donor Punto is so new that none of the mounts are remotely like working or helping. Huge and expensive looking parts they are. Most of the bits on it are way off for the Panda actually, whereas the mk1 stuff seems closer on most parts, but that is fair enough.

I think I have broken the crank sensor when lowering the car over the engine. Balls.

Sorry, I was thinking mk1 punto engine mount. I don't realy know my Puntos, I'm a merc and panda guy, maybe mk1 punto gearbox mounts might be a better mix and match?

Just a thought, what gearboxes and mounts were used in the Y10 as it had a wider range of engines than the Panda.

 

[lewey]

Y10 used same box and mounts as Panda for FIRE and even the GTie. Not sure about turbo models. Would expect the same as derived from same era of engines as the GTie. I had a Y10 for a while and thought about this conversion (1242 16v) then.

What is the ETA for your project now then? We should meet up before the end of summer and point knowingly at our bodges.

I've got a Punto on the drive. Gonna experiment with it's mounts on the Panda. Ha. Should keep one of every FIAT model for these situations.

 

[panda-sport]

Up and running last Sunday, taxed monday, half mile road test tuesday, drive to Ace and Fifth Gear shoot in rush hour traffic wednesday :devil: :devil:

The shakedown runs continue, should be at Ace again on Thursday

 

[J333EVO]

Y10 used same box and mounts as Panda for FIRE and even the GTie. Not sure about turbo models. Would expect the same as derived from same era of engines as the GTie. I had a Y10 for a while and thought about this conversion (1242 16v) then.

The Y10 Turbo used a 1050cc engine that was not a FIRE derived unit, it was Brazilian and unique in Europe to that model, I would hazard a guess that the gearbox may also be therefore unique, I could of course be wrong on that.

Gearbox's are normally built with a factor of 2.5 in terms of torque capabilities from standard engine, though they are sometimes built to a higher spec than this 3-3.5.

As for engine mounts, never worked on panda, we used the Seicento ones on our conversion after removing the Stilo ones which are same as Punto ones in that they are massive cast items that bolt to side of engine and gearbox. It may be worth while re-examining the Panda FIRE mounts as the engine block it self is in terms of where the mounts go the same on 1108, 1242, 1368, or at least have the same mounting studs as two of them are into water ways and are left in place behind the large Stilo/Punto mount.

Might be worth you having a nosey at a Cinq/Sei to see how there FIRE engines were fitted, one mount alternator side to chassis rail, one mount on gearbox side to chassis rail, and last mount off rear off gear box to floor plan.

Aaron.

 

[Xsisley]

keep up the good work..



2morrow im about to start dropping my 1000cc and putting a 1242cc punto (8v)
into my 4x4, twin choke weber too !
excited !

thanks for putting up good pics too, they are great !

aran.

 

[Alan.D]

Jeeze it's spreading soon there will be panda's all running the Pod or doing everest.

 

[lewey]

As for engine mounts, never worked on panda, we used the Seicento ones on our conversion after removing the Stilo ones which are same as Punto ones in that they are massive cast items that bolt to side of engine and gearbox. It may be worth while re-examining the Panda FIRE mounts as the engine block it self is in terms of where the mounts go the same on 1108, 1242, 1368, or at least have the same mounting studs as two of them are into water ways and are left in place behind the large Stilo/Punto mount.

Might be worth you having a nosey at a Cinq/Sei to see how there FIRE engines were fitted, one mount alternator side to chassis rail, one mount on gearbox side to chassis rail, and last mount off rear off gear box to floor plan.

Aaron.

Thanks for the info. The engine mount is sorted because as you say, it's the same block. It's just the transmission. Cento mounts have potential. Just so hard to tell without getting hold of one seperately which is not easy. Can use eper, but again can be mis-leading.


Damon, I thought you brought a different one to the fifth gear shoot. I'm not paying attention! Well done.

 

[lewey]

Jeeze it's spreading soon there will be panda's all running the Pod or doing everest.

Well I'm going to the shops in my 750 later which should restore the Panda karma!

Right, well the mounting problem gains another problem- I have the engine mount lined up on the car ready to go on and the crank pulley is jammed against the wing (see photo). This 1368 does seem to have more protruding bits on the crank end. None of my alternators line up either as the crank seems so far out. Could be a design change from older 1242s or could be that it was aircon. Either way, headaches. :bang:

The second photo shows the side gearbox mount gap that must be filled. To fit, I will need to use the three holes on the box visible in the picture, it must then turn through 90 degrees and go almost straight up. It is similar in design to early Puntos which use these holes, but the punto design shoots off away from the box to bridge the gap between the box and the wing because it is a wider car.

 

[Alan.D]

Did they do a V type pully which will be thinner or you will have to rework the inner wing

 

[lewey]

Ahhhh, this one is solved. Looks like the mount has less reach than a normal one because it's a Selecta. Obviously helps to fit the larger box in at the other end. Just as well I've got other Pandas to check all this out. That's me routing in the garage for half an hour to find a normal mount then..

 

[panda-sport]

I was sure that engine mount didn't look quite right

It is tight fit



and a shot of my gearbox mount in the slim chance it may be of use, but I sure you can sort it with some box section and sheet steel

 

[lewey]

Thanks Damon for the photos. When you said different mount length, I thought you meant height. I has certainly complicated things getting this selecta. Oh well.

Yours looks very close even with the right mount. I couldn't find a normal FIRE mount in my garage which amazed me. Found one on a spare 769 which was snapped in half! The support on the wing is different too, so will need one of those. For transmission it looks more and more like cinq mounts could fit or at least give me something to work with.

 

[panda-sport]

Yours looks very close even with the right mount.

Make sure you fit a fresh cambelt before final fitting of the engine

 

[lewey]

Make sure you fit a fresh cambelt before final fitting of the engine

My engine and box have only done 3500 miles!

 

[Xsisley]

keep up the good work..



2morrow im about to start dropping my 1000cc and putting a 1242cc punto (8v)
into my 4x4, twin choke weber too !
excited !

thanks for putting up good pics too, they are great !

aran.

whey! finished it today..
just gotta put my cambelt cover on 2morrow.
i now have a 1242cc white 4x4,
but currently running on the 1000cc carb haha
just gotta chek she is all running good, then i can make the twin choke adaptor plate.

that clearance looks VERY close on the alt belt.
should be ok though..
looks like its all coming along well.
cant wait to see the final pics !:yum:

aran.